Trekking in winter

[ianmbetts]

I am planning a week of treking in the new year, hopefully the Slieve Bloom Way, in Ireland where live.

Id welcome any tips on treking in winter.

I am happy enough treking in the summer, I did Offas Dyke back in 1976. I am also happy enough with day hikes in winter ice and snow after having spent the 90s living in Scotland with the mountains on my doorstep.

What I have never done before is treking in winter, so in preparation for this adventure I have been testing out some of the gear on day trips and in the Garden.

The current cold snap provided an ideal opportunity to test the sleep system. It's a UK army modular setup and I spent the night under canvas this week at -6c , and was snug as a bug, so great success there.

What I did not bargain for was that the tent was stiff as a board with frost and ice. I am really unsure how to proceed with breaking camp in such a scenario. Since its in the garden I've left it up, but as it's shaded it's actually not really thawed yet.

Obviously this would be a problem treking when you are targeting to cover a good distance each day, you don't want to be held up waiting for a tent to thaw.

Any tips on how to break camp and still have a serviceable dry tent to re erect at the end of the day ?

 

[Erbswurst]

If you use a cotton tent around the freezing point you simply need a fire to heat and dry it. Or you integrate it into your clothing system, like for example the polish army tent is two cloaks or the triangular Wehrmacht tent sheet was a camouflage rain jacket and winstopper.
Totally outdated though.

I recommend to get a real military poncho and a Goretex bivvy bag, British army or German army bivvy bag should fit your sleeping bags perfectly. The German one is sold as Goretex Sleeping Bag Cover by Carinthia pretty expensive but it's offered also used. The central zipper might be a good idea in your age. The British one they throw everywhere behind you. If you are inside they work equally but it's easier to wee out of the German one. If hiking in winter conditions that's less funny than it sounds in the first moment.

If you can't enter your sleeping bags with nearly closed zippers you should take the German one.

I can't tell you if the Snugpak Special Forces bivvy bag fits your sleeping bags. It's very similar to the German army bivvy bag but much lighter and less robust. But you don't hop around in your bivvy bag anyway, isn't it?

A used German army bivvy bag costs exactly the same as a new Snugpak SF.

Others surely will recommend you a tent. The Hilleberg Akto might be a good idea. If you can get the stakes into the ground. If not they sell also heavier 1 man igloo tents.

I don't like to carry tents around.

 

[nigelp]

Load the rucksack with everything apart from the tent. Leave a nice bit of room in the top for the tent.

Put on a pair of waterproof gloves - household marigolds are great; they go nicely over the top of a pair of thinner gloves and you can manipulate the tent poles etc without getting cold/wet hands.

Give the tent a good shake and a poke to break up and loosen the snow/ice etc. Do not use anything other than you hands to to get the snow and ice off.

Use an absorbent soft cloth to 'dry' the inner tent as much as possible. Remove the inner tent and fold up so it's short enough to fit in the rucksack. Like a large loaf of bread rather than long and thin. Put that inside a waterproof bag or bin liner.

Shake and knock the tent outer and clear as much show and ice of it. Dismantle the outer and fold to a similar size as the inner. I slide the poles down inside the rucksack rather than strapping to outside.

If you can, during the day get the fly sheet out and give it a good shake to get more water off; usually by midday it will be defrosted and wet.

When you pitch up the next night erect the fly and use the cloth to dry it as much as possible. Same with the inner tent. You may need to take a second cloth or even a sponge to mop water up.

During the winter in the UK it is more usual to have to deal with damp and cold rather than ice and snow.

 

[FerlasDave]

You’ll find lots of fantastic information here on Paul’s site. Starting with this article.

A Winter Camping Trip in the Northern Forest

Winter camping in the northern forest can be an amazing experience. Also known as the boreal forest, or the Taiga, the environment is simply beautiful. In many ways travel in the northern forest is easier in the winter than in the summer. Winter, however, brings other complications and hazards...

paulkirtley.co.uk

 

[Broch]

Good advice above except DO NOT go down the army poncho route in the UK in winter - you'll have miserable nights. I was once described as 'mad' because I slept under a 'handkerchief' but I wouldn't recommend it to people starting off in this pastime and especially not in UK winter.

The Slieve Bloom Way rises to over 1,200m and is strenuous; take good kit

 

[TLM]

Poncho works well as a cover to bivi. Then it'll take most of the frost and also work as an extra radiation cover (aluminized surface would be best).

 

[Broch]

Poncho works well as a cover to bivi. Then it'll take most of the frost and also work as an extra radiation cover (aluminized surface would be best).

Been there, done that; we'll have to agree to disagree. A poncho is sub-optimum coat and a sub-optimum shelter. When you're trekking in the winter why go out with sub-optimum equipment.

I still regularly sleep out in cold and sub-zero temperatures with a tarp and a bivi bag, but I would never recommend that as the main shelter/sleeping option for multi-day winter trekking in the wild.

 

[nigelp]

Been there, done that; we'll have to agree to disagree. A poncho is sub-optimum coat and a sub-optimum shelter. When you're trekking in the winter why go out with sub-optimum equipment.

I still regularly sleep out in cold and sub-zero temperatures with a tarp and a bivi bag, but I would never recommend that as the main shelter/sleeping option for multi-day winter trekking in the wild.

Seconded. A two skin tent is always a better option especially in the UK.

 

[TLM]

Been there, done that; we'll have to agree to disagree. A poncho is sub-optimum coat and a sub-optimum shelter. When you're trekking in the winter why go out with sub-optimum equipment.

Don't really disagree but any cover is better than none if a bivi is used. Proper tent is best. (#1 son said they slept in snow holes with a bivi while serving, apparently they all survived even in -30C)

A two layer tent does not save you if some care is not taken, like air circulation.

 

[nigelp]

The OP is walking and camping in Ireland in winter. The weather is more likely to be cold and wet with a chance of sub zero (cold and wet). A tent is absolutely ideal for those conditions.

 

[TLM]

A tent is absolutely ideal for those conditions.

I don't know, I have never been in freezing rain while trekking. But as a first guess it would not be bad, I also have no alternative for it.

 

[nigelp]

I don't know, I have never been in freezing rain while trekking. But as a first guess it would not be bad, I also have no alternative for it.

It’s not so much the walking in wet and cold or freezing conditions - as the camping aspect of it after the walk.
Long 16 hour plus evenings/nights are made easier by having a shelter that pitches consistently and has been designed for that weather. The double skin is designed to allow some of the condensation to drip off the inner tent (keeping the occupant drier) and most have multiple venting options.

Exposed hill sides, changing wind directions and the need for a vestibule to cook under and use as a wet clothing and kit admin area really suit a tent designed for it. It is also far easier to kneel up in a tent and wee in a bottle or container than it is to exit a bivvy bag and wriggle out from under a poncho AND keep everything dry!

 

[Broch]

Exposed hill sides, changing wind directions and the need for a vestibule to cook under and use as a wet clothing and kit admin area really suit a tent designed for it. It is also far easier to kneel up in a tent and wee in a bottle or container than it is to exit a bivvy bag and wriggle out from under a poncho AND keep everything dry!

Exactly!

 

[TLM]

Let's go back a bit, my original post was that IF one sleeps in a bivy THEN a poncho helps (ELSE ...). It was not a recommendation for the combo.

I don't have a bivy presently because I did not like them when first tested one.

I do have a two double walled tents.

And I have used a vestibule in a sleet day and had the tent crash on me twice in one 24h because nothing held in the wind.

 

[nigelp]

Let's go back a bit, my original post was that IF one sleeps in a bivy THEN a poncho helps (ELSE ...). It was not a recommendation for the combo.

I don't have a bivy presently because I did not like them when first tested one.

I do have a two double walled tents.

And I have used a vestibule in a sleet day and had the tent crash on me twice in one 24h because nothing held in the wind.

Don’t worry about it then. If you don’t have any experience of using that system in UK/Ireland conditions then it’s not worth getting in a fuss about it. The rest was fluff in response to the suggestion about using a bivvy! A new thread on that subject would be better than diluting this this one anot how to pack a tent up in winter with an unnecessary back and forth about the merits of bivy’s and ponchos.

The OP question about breaking camp was answered in post #3. That was based on my 30 plus years of actual outdoor experience walking, leading, camping and hiking in the conditions the OP wanted advice on.
If others also have some suggestions then I always willing to take on board new ideas and use them myself.

 

[TLM]

If you don’t have any experience of using that system in UK/Ireland conditions

Depends, not in UK but I have a funny feeling that some conditions in Lapland in the autumn can be as bad.

 

[SaraR]

If you don’t have time to let it dry out in teh morning (not so easy with the shorter days) then you’re going to have to pack it away wet and either set it up to dry for a while during the day (e.g. during your lunch break) or set it up damp in the evening. Get rid of some of the water by mopping up /shake off what can be removed and store the fly separate from the fly.

 

[ianmbetts]

Load the rucksack with everything apart from the tent. Leave a nice bit of room in the top for the tent.

Put on a pair of waterproof gloves - household marigolds are great; they go nicely over the top of a pair of thinner gloves and you can manipulate the tent poles etc without getting cold/wet hands.

Give the tent a good shake and a poke to break up and loosen the snow/ice etc. Do not use anything other than you hands to to get the snow and ice off.

Use an absorbent soft cloth to 'dry' the inner tent as much as possible. Remove the inner tent and fold up so it's short enough to fit in the rucksack. Like a large loaf of bread rather than long and thin. Put that inside a waterproof bag or bin liner.

Shake and knock the tent outer and clear as much show and ice of it. Dismantle the outer and fold to a similar size as the inner. I slide the poles down inside the rucksack rather than strapping to outside.

If you can, during the day get the fly sheet out and give it a good shake to get more water off; usually by midday it will be defrosted and wet.

When you pitch up the next night erect the fly and use the cloth to dry it as much as possible. Same with the inner tent. You may need to take a second cloth or even a sponge to mop water up.

During the winter in the UK it is more usual to have to deal with damp and cold rather than ice and snow.

Thanks for this advice, I was already coming to the conclusion that I should store the inner tent and fly separately. As it happened the tent pitches fly fist, so I should be able to get the inner out reasonably dry before "beating" the fly. I was actually thinking of just rolling the fly loosely and tucking it under some bungie cord on the back of the rucksack, the idea being to maximise the "potential" effect of the sun lit hours, and making it more easily accessible to take off and shake out a bit, or even spread out to dry during a meal/rest break later in the day (all weather permitting of course).

 

[ianmbetts]

You’ll find lots of fantastic information here on Paul’s site. Starting with this article.

A Winter Camping Trip in the Northern Forest

Winter camping in the northern forest can be an amazing experience. Also known as the boreal forest, or the Taiga, the environment is simply beautiful. In many ways travel in the northern forest is easier in the winter than in the summer. Winter, however, brings other complications and hazards...

paulkirtley.co.uk

Thanks

 

[nigelp]

Thanks for this advice, I was already coming to the conclusion that I should store the inner tent and fly separately. As it happened the tent pitches fly fist, so I should be able to get the inner out reasonably dry before "beating" the fly. I was actually thinking of just rolling the fly loosely and tucking it under some bungie cord on the back of the rucksack, the idea being to maximise the "potential" effect of the sun lit hours, and making it more easily accessible to take off and shake out a bit, or even spread out to dry during a meal/rest break later in the day (all weather permitting of course).

Some rucksacks have an outer rear mesh/stretch pocket or side mesh pockets that allow the fly to drip dry as you walk. I personally don’t like to have anything loose on the outside because Sod’s Law says I would catch it on something sharp!