Treating Snake Bites

[BOD]

dogwood,

I have several posts in this resurrected thread.

I suggest that you read them all, and not selectively, otherwise, it seems that you are setting up a straw man to attack.

I freely admit that my first one was a somewhat flippant response to the opening post 's scenario but, even in my first post, I am careful to confine the flippant remedy to the scenario and not the "normal" case of snake bite where there is access to medical care on the same day.

I'm not so sure that it is 20Century adventure novels.

A quick search for the situation in the US (which is where you are refering to) reveals that cutting and /or sucking was a practice among some Indian tribes. The second reference has many pages on Indian remedies and magic

Ernest Thomson Seton

http://books.google.com/books?id=4n...qODPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result

Rattlesnakes: Their Habits, Life Histories, and Influence on Mankind
By Laurence Monroe Klauber pp1183 onward

http://books.google.com/books?id=4p...&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA1184,M1

 

[swagman]

I wasnt going to post this but i have been told by a bushman that if the native Australians
got biten by a snake a few days into the bush that they would lay down and go to sleep.
Whith the idea that it slows your heart rate down giving your body time to recover from the poison over a few days.

I am not saying this is the right thing to do but as Bod says in a scenario where you are 3
days from help you would try anything.

 

[Walks with dogs]

My apologies for thread drift... I am off to Arkansas later this week and will be spending a fair bit of time in woods, some of it up trees, going out just before dawn when I am unlikely to see an potential problems.

Is anyone familiar with the Arkansas area and the local snakes? If so, are they active this time of year?

 

[BOD]

I wasnt going to post this but i have been told by a bushman that if the native Australians
got biten by a snake a few days into the bush that they would lay down and go to sleep.
Whith the idea that it slows your heart rate down giving your body time to recover from the poison over a few days.

.

Really? All our snakes are elapids swagman so the whole haematoxic reaction thing doesn't really apply to us. Won't wake up with a dead limb.

I wonder what the physiologists here say about that

 

[sandbender]

A quick search for the situation in the US (which is where you are refering to) reveals that cutting and /or sucking was a practice among some Indian tribes. The second reference has many pages on Indian remedies and magic

Thanks for these links

Although if I was the father of the young chap who relates his experiences in the link mentioned above and we were three days from help, then magic might be our only hope.

 

[dogwood]

dogwood,

I have several posts in this resurrected thread.

I suggest that you read them all, and not selectively, otherwise, it seems that you are setting up a straw man to attack.

My apologies.

In fact, I didn't even realize it was an old thread -- when I posted (late at night here in the states) there were only three or four posts in the thread that I could see.

That happens sometimes at the Bushcraft UK site around midnight local time. my suspicion is it has something to do with it's *new posts* algorithm not working quite right over time zones.

Anyhow, I didn't have access to the other posts and only saw your original one and three others.

So I'll stand down since it's clearly been resolved.

 

[Chinkapin]

Walks with Dogs: I lived in The Ozark Mountains of Arkansas for years and have a small cabin there now. There are three poisonous snakes in Arkansas. First is the Cottonmouth. This is a large water snake that darkens as it ages. Second is the Copperhead. It is almost pinkish to copper colored, with somewhat hourglass shaped black bars on back. It is extremely well camoflaged to its environment. Copperheads are small, seldom being over two feet in length, but, don't let the size fool you. Third is the Eastern Diamond Back Rattlesnake. It is the largest of the the Rattlesnakes. I have seen them at over five feet long. They are the largest of the poisonous snakes in Arkansas. Any of these three snakes could potentially kill you. The smaller your body size, and the weaker and poorer your health the more you are at risk. It is possible to encounter any of these snakes anytime the temperature is above freezing. Being cold blooded they do not go out and about on cold days, but they may come out of their den and sun themselves on a sunlit warm rock and then go back into the den. They are certainly going to be out on any warm day. They are all pit vipers. which means they can locate prey by its body heat, in total darkness. Although they are primarily nocturnal, they might be encountered at any time of the day.

 

[BOD]

No offence taken dogwood and thank you for the gracious retraction.

I can't be the first to throw stones. The number of times I've got it wrong with a hasty and shoot from the lip response on this site is well into double figures.

Sometimes I've been birched for that

 

[Walks with dogs]

Walks with Dogs: I lived in The Ozark Mountains of Arkansas for years and have a small cabin there now. There are three poisonous snakes in Arkansas. First is the Cottonmouth. This is a large water snake that darkens as it ages. Second is the Copperhead. It is almost pinkish to copper colored, with somewhat hourglass shaped black bars on back. It is extremely well camoflaged to its environment. Copperheads are small, seldom being over two feet in length, but, don't let the size fool you. Third is the Eastern Diamond Back Rattlesnake. It is the largest of the the Rattlesnakes. I have seen them at over five feet long. They are the largest of the poisonous snakes in Arkansas. Any of these three snakes could potentially kill you. The smaller your body size, and the weaker and poorer your health the more you are at risk. It is possible to encounter any of these snakes anytime the temperature is above freezing. Being cold blooded they do not go out and about on cold days, but they may come out of their den and sun themselves on a sunlit warm rock and then go back into the den. They are certainly going to be out on any warm day. They are all pit vipers. which means they can locate prey by its body heat, in total darkness. Although they are primarily nocturnal, they might be encountered at any time of the day.

Oh shoot! I'll be going out at dusk to sit up a tree, for a few hours, then back out again before dawn. Each time going out in darkness, and my brother in law is insistent we don't use a light so we don't scare the deer.

 

[Chinkapin]

Walks with dogs: many people coon hunt with dogs and run all over these mountains at night and are rarely bitten. Of course they have lights. Just wear good tall leather boots and you will most likely be fine. Only one time, did I ever walk in the woods at night without a light. I got caught out and had to walk a mile in total darkness. I also had to cross a river. I wasn't deep but I knew that it had snakes. I was as nervous as a politician in church! I don't know if you are going to be in the Ozarks or somewhere else, You didn't say, but in those mountains, when the sun drops behind a mountain it gets dark very quick and it is way darker than anywhere else because of the dense foliage (if the foliage is on the trees). You literally cannot see you hand in front of your face. In the summertime, on most nights the tree frogs (by the millions) begin to make their little mating calls and the noise can be really disconcerting to people who do not know what it is. It is very loud. By the way, you can get RED l.e.d. lights that animals cannot apparently see. It isn't the best light to walk by but they do work and would help you to see where you are going. You might want to pick one up.

 

[swagman]

Really? All our snakes are elapids swagman so the whole haematoxic reaction thing doesn't really apply to us. Won't wake up with a dead limb.

I wonder what the physiologists here say about that

Yes Bod really that is what i was told . myself i find this as stupid as cutting and
sucking.

 

[Cairodel]

RGS advice is fine for most of the time but please remember that it is general.

If you are going to a particular area it pays to speak to snake handlers of the species you may come across and to earn their trust. After a while ask them "what would you do if you or one of your kids were bitten by a ...... ?". Listen carefully to what they say.

Normal advice is valueless here. Unless it was a "blank" bite your survival is poor unless you.

Let me quote from advice by an ER physician from Stanford knowledgable about snakes:
"All persons who have been bitten by a cobra should be treated as if a severe envenomation has occurred" cf Vipers.
"A completely occlusive tourniquet is reasonable when a victim has been bitten by a highly toxic snake, such as a cobra, and is a short distance from medical care. "

So gentlemen make up you own mind and ask the locals and local doctors. There are some especially scary snakes out there that require special considerations.

Agree with all the extracts above from your post, Bod....
There are so many differing opinions on snakebites/venoms/envenomation, that
the best, and only good advice IMO, is "don't get bitten".... i.e. - be aware of where you
are, and if you DO see a snake, LEAVE IT ALONE...!!! You are NOT Austin Stevens...!?!

According to some (ref: Nat Geographic), the deadliest snakes in the world are the
Russel's, Carpet and Sand Vipers... not because of the strength or effects of their
venom (although deadly), but because of the number of people bitten by them, and when
they do bite, they ALWAYS envenomate, and in a desert environment such as
here, you are unlikely to be anywhere near medical help.

Re: local opinion - Ask any Bedouin about "Torashia" (any of the desert vipers), and their
only advice is; "If they bite, you are dead, so kill them... Understandable when these little
creatures often make their way into their homes, but not advice I have followed in a few
encounters....