Traveling to Europe via Eurostar

[sandbender]

Have just returned from a week in the Ardeche with RM, a couple of attendees traveled to Avignon via Eurostar with their bushcraft knives secured in their baggage.

However (as may have been expected) the scanner picked one up at Waterloo, the police were called, they were both arrested, cautioned and eventually released minus their knives.

Best to fly I think!

 

[Snufkin]

I hope those weren't AW woodlores, if they were I'll keep my eye on ebay in the next few days

 

[Graham_S]

whatever happened to "reasonable excuse"? it's not like they were waving them about.

 

[Spacemonkey]

What were they supposedly about to do? Hijack a flippin' train? Not too paranoid then...

 

[arctic hobo]

What were they supposedly about to do? Hijack a flippin' train? Not too paranoid then...

And when they'd done that they'd drive it into the... station!









(excuse my bitterness )

 

[Tantalus]

please elaborate sandbender, what exactly was the reason given for arrest ?

what was the reason for the knives being retained ?

and did anyone ask for a receipt ?

was there some kind of almighty fuss or was everyone quite calm and very patient with the authorities?

cheers
Tant

 

[sandbender]

The tale told by the attendees was this, they arrived at check in and one knife was spotted when the bags were scanned, the other attendee volunteered that he also had a knife in his baggage.

Perhaps understandably Euro Tunnel Security were not happy for two knives to be available to these passengers while the train was en route.

Apparently an option for placing such items in a secure location on the train for collection was normally available, however this option was not available on this occasion, the attendees tried to point out that they were off to France to practice bushcraft activities in the Ardeche gorge on a course run by Ray Mears, they also attempted to argue that their knives were tools to assist them in their 'hobby' and not offensive weapons (I have no idea whether their attitude and demeanor were calm and reasonable while they did so).

In their own words "it was at this point that the head of security decided to put the matter in the hands of the police", the attending officers were described as polite and unsure as to what to do, however they were arrested and taken to a police station, the desk sergeant was described as not to happy that they had been brought in.

Eventually they were offered the option of accepting a caution and being released to continue their journey.

A Met officer on the trip was surprised that this had happened and felt that this was a gambol on the part of the police, and that they had maneuvered the attendees into thinking that this was their best option, his advice would have been to refuse the caution as the police would be unlikely to take the case to the CPS.

My advice would be to take a plane instead.

 

[greg2935]

and a letter to the police ombudsman would have been prudent to ensure all officers are briefed over the actual law and not their misconceptions

 

[RobertsonPau]

Not sure if this is relevent, but BB have had a thread about London / Metropolitan Police arresting anyone with any non legal knife in their possession:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9443

Scary stuff

Paul

 

[Tantalus]

sorry RobertsonPau i didnt read the thread on BB to say anything at all like that

as sandbender says, the desk sergeant was none tooo happy to see these two people arrested either

the train normally has provisions for items like this to be stored in transit

and it is unlikely that they would have been prosecuted had they refused the caution.

I guess the moral is, call ahead and ok it with them that you will be bringing a knife for a legitimate reason and that they will have somewhere to store it for the duration of the journey

Tant

 

[Ahjno]

Arrested???

Last summer I went to a Woodlore Fundamental Bushcraft course, on which we were issued with a Frosts Mora knife
On my way back I went to my parents, who were in the south of France at that moment, so I had made a reservation on the Eurostar to Paris ...

In Ashford, where I had to catch the Eurostar, they also have a lovely scanner machine Backpack (with knife) went through it ... Lots of panic ... all sorts of guys came to have a look on the screen ... They decided (all 5 ) that is was a knife ... Searched my pack and confiscated the knife ... Didn't get arrested though - allthough I couldn't blame them if they did: I was looking and smelling horrible
Asked the guy who made notes and filled out some form (in which I declared the knife wasn't mine any longer) if it had any consequences ... It hadn't

They only were after my knife ... my eating knife (or fork) didn't had the slightest interest of them ... I think we all know we could do some serious harm with a fork, don't we?!

After that I was questioned by the French customs officer, who had seen everything - He asked me in english what my plans were in France, I answered him in fluent french that I went visiting my parents who where on a holiday - he just looked like this smiley: LOL
I think he didn't expected a reply in french. After that I was allowed to continue my journey.

Well a small adventure on its own

 

[innocent bystander]

And i quote:

Which objects may I not travel with? And how can I make alternative arrangements?

Question
Which objects may I not travel with? And how can I make alternative arrangements?

Answer
Sharp objects such as knives, firearms, dangerous chemicals and flammable substances are not allowed on Eurostar.

Passengers travelling with more than the two items of luggage plus one piece of hand luggage, or when travelling with bicycles, sporting weapons and large musical instruments, are advised to use the registered baggage service.

Charges
Luggage, bags, items up to 30kg: £12.00Items over 30kg will be subject to a surcharge of £12.00 for each additional 30kg
Sporting and collectors' weapons: £12.00
(Firearms pass/suitable documentation must be shown)
Bicycles (tandems not accepted): £20.00
Large unwieldy items (musical instruments): £20.00

Please phone 08705 850 850 for further details.



So, an extra £12 for something that small.....

 

[anthonyyy]

If your going home a good option is to post the knife to yourself. Bit trickier on the outward journey.

 

[sandbender]

"Passengers travelling with more than the two items of luggage plus one piece of hand luggage, or when travelling with bicycles, sporting weapons and large musical instruments, are advised to use the registered baggage service."

This would have been a good solution and they should have checked before hand, however for some reason the registered baggage was not available on that morning, confiscation was the only option open to them, when they tried to object the issue was place in the hands of the police.

The moral of the story being...

Maybe we should all fly and not use Eurostar?

 

[Wayne]

I would be writing to the Met commissioner and seeking legal advice. Removing the knife from a person is fine but the knife should be returned if no offence has been committed. The police need to chase criminals not people pursuing a legitimate past time.

 

[tenbears10]

I realise people have had knives confiscated from them, Ahjno said about his Mora, but is there no alternative to confiscation? If it was a mora then maybe to save the hassel but what if it was an Alan Wood Woodlore or a custom knife? I for one would be very reluctant to sign a form stating 'the knife was not mine any longer' it ****ing well is mine matey. Do they offer no solution other then taking away your property?

I just can't beleive they can do this. I see people mention the secure bagage facility but Sandbender says this was not available on the day. What if you arrived with a 'sporting weapon' and there was no secure facility would they confiscate that as well?

 

[tenbears10]

Exactly Wayne. That's what I was trying to say.

 

[Ahjno]

I think we have to switch to flying, instead of going by Eurostar as Sandbender says. Though it's a great experience!!
On the moment they where searching my pack I couldn't afford to miss that train ... I had to catch another train (also with reservation) in Paris, so didn't bother much about the loss of my ("only" 10 quid) Mora ...

On the actual moment of confiscation they didn't say anything about any possible options ... IIRC "the boss" had some comments about being it a sheath knife - 10 cm long (blade) - and being absolutely not allowed. Not sure if he ment not allowed at all or aboard on the train (why would I steal a train? I don't like yellow ... ) , I think it's the latter.

Quite happy though I don't own a W/S Woodlore (as some guys on the course did) ... Learnt my lesson though: next time I'll be winging my way to the UK, or by boat (when I've got a knife with me) ...

 

[zambezi]

A couple of years ago [2002, i.e. post 9/11] Tina and I walked a section of the GR11 in the Pyrenees. I made the fatal error of talking up the possibility of seeing bears whilst we hiked. That plus the need to have something to dig a latrine prompted Tina to buy a fearsome looking ice-axe that, she felt, would serve in either case. In the event, there were no bears, and a trowel would have sufficed for the other...

I digress. The point was that the axe did not fit inside the rucksack I was travelling with and had to be fastened to the usual loops on the outside for the duration of the journey to and from Pau. [Eurostar & TGV] It was in plain view at all times. Admitedly I did wrap some tape on the adze and "raptor-beak" bits, but this did not disguise the item, merely prevented damage to the bag.

Is it not extraordinary that so dangerous a weapon as an ice-axe [potentially] was never questioned and yet a knife that is not even in plain view is treated so differently? Both items are just tools.

If Eurostar could not offer an alternate method of carriage, then that is a poor show indeed. But what irks the most is the police handling of the matter. Issuing a caution is not an acceptable response in the light of section 139(4) of the Criminal Justice Act, 1988.

Vince

 

[Stew]

Certainly makes you think. I suppose that's another plus for the almost disposable Mora but a shame if you wouldn't be able to take your favourite knife.

I wonder what the police protocol is on confiscated items. I think I'll pm Ross at BB...