Toetectors

[havingagiraffe]

Please does anyone know why army boots don't have internal 200 joule steel toe caps like civilian boots? Cost and weight don't seen to be of any great concern to the men in DPM, so does it have something do with setting off mines or any other issue peculiar to the military?

Any theories?

 

[The Joker]

having steel around your toes will make them more susceptible to frostbite when on manouevers in cold climates, thats the only thing I can think of

pete

 

[Motorbike Man]

In my experiance it's mostly because they are blimmin uncomfortable to walk in. I had some walking style boots with steel toecaps when I was a wharehouse man and they were great for working in, but the one time I went for a proper walk in them I ended up with bruises across the top of my feet from the edge of the steel toe cap

 

[arctic hobo]

People are a bit wary of putting steel in military boots now anyway - it's a bit jackboot-esque, and from a few conversations I've had with folks "in the know" it seems to be an image the military really want to avoid, which seems quite fair enough

 

[Goose]

I think it is purely a comfort thing, those boots are made for walking!
We were issued miners boots (standard toetectors) but I think I wore them about twice on courses in about two or three years,I was a sapper, they would have been impossible to tab in and I think they were issued as a get out in case of anyone damaging their toes!
Now I think of it I can't recall anyone having any injuries that steel toe caps would have helped, just my experience and others may have different view.

 

[swamp donkey]

Cannon fodder dont really need them for the given reasons .Other arms that have the risk are issued with them RE's ,Pioneers ,RLC etc . They dont look much different from the old issue high boot . unlike boots miners
I was involved in trials some years ago , I had on test a excellent pair of chain saw boots with kevlar toe caps etc best boots I have ever worn, only problem was black uppers with rubber toe cap and red soles which drove the RSM almost completly batty for the sixth months I had them only problem was there was no makers name woould love to buy a pair.
but at £175 a pair 10 years ago they never really had a chance

 

[Goose]

They dont look much different from the old issue high boot . unlike boots miners

Had put "boots, miners" first and changed it!

 

[swamp donkey]

I think it is purely a comfort thing, those boots are made for walki
Now I think of it I can't recall anyone having any injuries that steel toe caps would have helped, just my experience and others may have different view.

Having been a 3 Regt training nco saw a few squished feet out in the Sqns people seemed to be able to avoid their feet but not the D6 etc

 

[Goose]

A D6 would crush the steel toecap, I know a few POMs who wouldn't wear toetectors as they would cause more damage if they trapped your toes!

 

[swamp donkey]

Grouser plate to foot ,equals no foot what ever you are wearing

Mind you wingate roller to sapper trying to retie boot laces equals one flat sapper

 

[bambodoggy]

Interesting as this is can't see the relevance to bushcraft here? ? ?

In the army I wore army boots coz I was told too. Out hiking I wear hiking boots coz they do what I want them to, at work I wear chainsaw boots coz HSE tells me too and out bushcrafting I wear whatever the weather tells me too.

Bam.

 

[havingagiraffe]

Good information. Thanks.

Regarding steelies being uncomfortable:

I think it's because work boots never fit properly. You just wear what you're given. If we spent as much time trying on different pairs of work boots as we do trying on different pairs of walking boots I'm sure we'd eventually find a comfy pair.

Regarding crushed toes getting trapped:

There was a guy ahead of me in a que in a shoe shop in Aberystwyth a few years ago. He was buying a pair of steel toed wellies several sizes to big for himself. The shop girl asked him if he'd like to try on a smaller pair. He replied that he liked the boot's toe cap to start just beyond his toes so his feet wouldn't get trapped if the toe cap got crushed. Not sure if that one quite adds up....

Regarding getting run over by a tracked vehicle:

If you're on an soft surface and wearing a decent safety boot your foot will just get pushed into the ground. Anyone's who's worked on a site with spaced out crane operators will testify that obstacles tend to dissapear into the earth rather than getting crushed against the surface. I doubt if anything will protect your feet against tracks on a hard surface.

If you get run over by a tank crushed toes will probably be the least of your worries.....

 

[havingagiraffe]

Interesting as this is can't see the relevance to bushcraft here? ? ?

Military boots are designed to be worn by people who walk a lot and work with potentially dangerous objects such as axes, lumps of wood and big stones. Bushcraft people walk a lot and deal with similar dangerous objects. A thread sharing information on the logic behind the design of such boots slots nicely into the BCUK kit chatter forum which has been created for "general discussions on clothing and equipment."

 

[BlueTrain]

I have wondered about army boots versus civilian hiking boots before and brought up the subject but with no good responses. However, steel toes never entered my mind.

The question I did have, though, was about the apparent opposite direction that army boots and hiking boots appear to be going. On the one hand, army boots (and I mean anybody's army boots) seem to be getting heavier and heavier, in spite of new materials being introduced into the designs. The lightest pair of boots I have at the moment is a pair of DMS ankle boots, purchased new. Remember all the complaints in the Falklands about how the DMS boots were too light?

Civilian hiking boots, on the other hand, have been getting lighter and lighter and, if present trends continue, will disappear completely within the next ten years. If you start with old fashioned mountaineering boots with lugged soles, then look around the shoe department the next time you are in your favorite (favourite) shop, you know what I mean. I used a mostly split leather and fabric pair of Adidas hiking shoes that are now pretty much falling apart for a long time but I think they may be slightly lighter than most people wear. I have used sandals for hiking, chiefly as an experiment--which I did not repeat, and they worked fairly well, at least on a warm day.

The funny thing is, soldiers probably walk on smoother paths than a civilian hiker out on the weekend. But who said anything has to be logical.

 

[bambodoggy]

Without wanting to be confrontational, I don't have a lot of tanks driving over my feet while I'm bushcrafting, neither am I that interested in what the army wears and issues to their personel.

I can see what you're saying about using steel toecaps while using an axe, lumps of wood and big stones though, so maybe your question should have been: "Should we have steel toecap boots for bushcraft". Your initial question was about asking about setting off landmines for goodness sake!

This is not an Army Kit forum, not even in the "kit chatter section".

I'm not going to reply again so you guys talk about whatever you wish...personally I'll stick to bushcraft.

Bam.

 

[Rhodri]

having steel around your toes will make them more susceptible to frostbite when on manouevers in cold climates, thats the only thing I can think of

pete

This is as good a reason as any IMO. I have to wear steel caps and soles on most sites in work. When there's frost about or you have to stand in cold water they can feel like they're draining the life out of you through your soles...

Another top idea from the HSE.

(As an aside - apparently rigger boots are soon to become illegal on construction sites in the UK. Shame, as they're easy to whip off when you're cold and make decent wellies when it's muddy).

Now, back to the bushcraft...

 

[havingagiraffe]

Without wanting to be confrontational,

I'm not going to reply again so you guys talk about whatever you wish...personally I'll stick to bushcraft.

Bam.

I don't want to be responsible for anyone putting a frown emocicon next to their name. Neither do I want to be the cause of the word "confrontational" being used on BCUK. There's enough negativity in the world without me upsetting people by asking about army surplus gear on BCUK. I would like to offer my unreserved apologies to anyone who's been offended by my question about military boots. I hope my apologies are accepted so we can all be friends again.

 

[Wenie]

Without wanting to be confrontational, I don't have a lot of tanks driving over my feet while I'm bushcrafting, neither am I that interested in what the army wears and issues to their personel.

I can see what you're saying about using steel toecaps while using an axe, lumps of wood and big stones though, so maybe your question should have been: "Should we have steel toecap boots for bushcraft". Your initial question was about asking about setting off landmines for goodness sake!

This is not an Army Kit forum, not even in the "kit chatter section".

I'm not going to reply again so you guys talk about whatever you wish...personally I'll stick to bushcraft.

Bam.

I for one am interested in what the army wears and issues to their personnel as army surplus gear is obviously a cheap resource for a lot of bushcrafters. I fail to see how a question regarding the design of a boot can be considered off topic in the kit chatter section, but maybe that's just me...

I would like to offer my unreserved apologies to anyone who's been offended by my question about military boots. I hope my apologies are accepted so we can all be friends again.

Your question certainly hasn't offended me - I found it relevant and a good read, as I wear steel toe caps for bushcraft myself. A post which leads to learning a bit on the merits or disadvantages of a piece of kit is always a good thing in this forum.

 

[swamp donkey]

Whilst It is a great shame that Mr Bam feels sad but Mr Girafe is only asking a question . May be it should have been in the off topic section but ha ho.

From a military point of view Mr Bam was wrong to scooff at the mine question as it is a fact that mines have been developed that detenonate by magnetic interfirence and on test at least one was capable of being set off by a set of steel toe cap boots thats why I was testing a pair with kyvlar toe caps.

The British Army only really took safety boots serously when they lost crown immuinity . As to why they went from boots DMS to boots high seems to me because everbody else was. . I always found Boots DMS and putties very comforable and most supportive but I just might be odd .

As for Safety boots in general unlike Mr Bam I wear my chainsaw boots and in fact all my safety gear not because HSE tells me but because, not to IMHO is plain stupid. Unlike others I have never had cold feet even working in the snow but then again I work for my self and am happy to spend the money to get the right ones for the job (I have 3 different pairs) and suspect I would even do so, if I where employed by A N other .
I have just taken a pair off after cutting the grass.

A place for safety boots in bushcraft for me thats a definate yes . As an example if I was to attend a course such as the Vildmark (spelling) in Sweden with lots of people I did not know and possibly new activities , I would be wearing my chain saw boots . The pair I wear are very comfortable and I have walked over 20 kms in a day wearing them and they are very waterproof.

But thats just me

 

[innocent bystander]

Shall I, Shan't I - what the hey

I have to wear 'tectors all the time at work, and the one time i dropped something on my foot i missed the toe cap and still squashed a toe. Had a limp for a fortnight. I would avoid 'tectors if possible simply because my old plates of meat are such a weird shape that i always end up with a pair to long.