"The Stone Age Electronic Calculator" Released!

[Cameron]

You are invited to participate in an new online experience.

"The Stone Age Electronic Calculator" is a website devoted to developing a manual that will be capable of providing all the instructions necessary to create an electronic calculator in a wilderness situation. Contribute from your area of expertise and watch the manual develop over time. Please feel free to pass on this information to any other persons or communities that may be interested in participating. www.stonecalculate.com

Sincerely,

Cameron MacLeod
--
MFA 2009 "Art in the Public Realm"
Konstfack University, Stockholm, Sweden

 

[Cameron]

I am extremely excited by all the talk talk on this thread. When I came up with the idea for this website it was exactly conversations like these that I had in mind. I am however sorry that I did not participate more, as I was not aware the discussion was happening here.

I believe I must make a few clarifications on the point of departure in this work. I see the website as a meeting point and the project as a possible means to enter into a dialoge with several different communities on an issue that I believe is universal and pressing. The Stone Age Calculator is a working title. It is a goal that may or may not be achieved but the process may take a different direction. We may make a radio or these descussions could be archeived and form the book for the work.

For those not interested in contemporary art don't read will give headache
This form of working is something that was new to me when I arrived in sweden and it may seem very relativistic but the idea is that the work of art is developed by a collective ....the public. It is politically motivated also the move away from objects which are deconstructing capitalism at the same time participating in it. (Warhol brillo boxes) Public art for the public by the public or relational art engages the veiwer in a completly different way. We participate with the medium that deconstructs the capitialistic super structure at the same time engageing in activities that will allow us to develop more socialist mindframes. I know what you are thinking, only in Sweden right. Well no this movement is developing worldwide and if you don't beleive me check out this video by Nicholas Bourriard. Ultra famous curator of the new show at the Tate. That public imput becomes the medium the relationships we share. I know it seems very abstract and hard to consider but it is a very well known and respected way of working with contemporary art. http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/altermodern/explain.shtm

Broch
I don't know if I ever think of this project from the perspective of a future apocalyptic scenario but I think this position is completely understandable. I am also unsure if books will be more durable than computers by the time it all goes poof.

British Red
only one way to fill it

Toddy
please don't kill me. This is for the public and the project is for my school year end but it would take far less time for me to develope this book by myself and I want this website to exist for many years so the process can be further refined. So it becomes easier and easier to develop electronics in a wilderness situation.

JohnC
do you have more information on time team and the iron smelting it would be great if you could put something in the site about it perhaps here http://www.stonecalculate.com/tiki-view_forum.php?forumId=11

Gregorach
I love you. You put me in my place in alot of ways. You are right my knowledge is a little limited in this area although I do know my electronics perhaps not as well as you. I do however believe that there is a possible work around which is possible when several minds get together. Using landfills is kind of missing the point. This has never been developed for practical application.

sapper1
don't know would love to hear some suggestions

Wallenstein
yes it is. very funny

locum76.
Thanks for the heads up.

Doc
There you go Doc right on the money alternative histories. Very nice. Try to keep up the enthusiasum where there is a will there is a way. The website has been up for four days and I have only released to some survivalists who have given me enough info to know that semiconductors will be a hurdle. When I start to release to communities engineers and techo hippies we may come to see some interesting work arounds.

gregorach
This is an amazing line "precision engineering tools don't grow on trees." maybe I should rename the site.
you'd end up with something that looked rather like an old-fashioned telephone exchange, and about the same size. cool but they are all different sizes. Could we use a sled to carry it? or we would have to reinvent the wheel. hehe
"I'm absolutely convinced that the Greeks had both the basic technology and the maths needed to start the Industrial Revolution a couple of thousand years early. However, they also had mass slavery, so they lacked the economic motivation - slaves are cheaper and easier to maintain than machines." perhaps but I am unsure where this debate is going.

locum76
"hey, that website must be art. its opened a good discussion here therefore it must mean something... utility for its own sake?"
bingo

forestwalker
ouch forestwalker. What passes as quality work for you friend. What is I made the calculator would that be better? p.s. I can't help but I think your reaction may be based on my fellow students Anna (fake suicide attemt) and Nug (Territorial Pissing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJfb5jyIlKQ&feature=related have a quite different working practice as me. I havn't seen Anna's work yet because it has not yet been released but I do think Nug's work does have some value if you like conceptual graffiti.

C_Claycomb
ohhhhh that hurt.

Sisyphus
I agree, you just can't use junk it is an untouched wilderness situation no found man made objects.

In closing I have made a special page just for you guys. Come play in my sandbox for a little while and I am sure we can keep things at least entertaining. http://www.stonecalculate.com/tiki-view_forum.php?forumId=12

 

[Cameron]

Well Red. Can I call you red? British Red is a little too wordy for casual conversation don't you agree? I must say it nice to have a worthy opponent at hand. Perhaps we can sit down for a yahoo chess game or some other web based activity that would give us a bit more diversity in our friendly banter.

I will make you a loaf of bread from scratch and send it to you in the mail if you write the instructions on my site. We will see who is an idler.

craeg
do you want me to make yo something too?

 

[Toddy]

Cameron, while British Red is more than capable of discussing his viewpoint rationally and with precision, please be aware of this..............you are very close to spamming the site.

You are asking that members visit your site, to post information for your benefit, without you having had the courtesy to ask if you might link.

The very information, tutorials and the like, that you are asking us to post there, takes time and skill to compile and edit that it is correct, clear and understandable to other readers............information we pass around freely here, and on other similar interest websites I agree, but why should we pass it on to you ?

Tell you what...........go on, be novel, introduce yourself as any other member might do on Introductions and Welcomes, tell us about you, your interests in bushcraft and related skills that led you here, read the rules and guidelines, and then lets see where this thread goes.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Cameron]

4 Toddy

It is my sincere hope that my endeavors remain within rules of the site. I read the rules and it seems like I am within the guidelines of conduct.

"to post information for your benefit"
I would not have anyone participate for my benefit. You participate out of your interest and I make the possibility available. I used this site as a location to let people know what I was doing and have responded out of interest in the ensuing discussion. I have no commercial products for sale. As for red he was bartering with me and my comment was in good fun sincerely sorry if I stepped too close to the line.

"without you having had the courtesy to ask if you might link." umm does this mean if I have a link on my site. Because I do.

Thanks for the heads up

4 firecrest

Sorry for the late response I have been working on yours for some time and I think that there may be some typos its late here and I want to get this off before bed.

1st question
Hey firecrest...thanks for the inquiry. I think the internet is an excellent example of a collective participation if I invented it and called it art well that would be one hot art piece but unfortunately I did not and I will have to settle for helping make an electronic calculator in the wild. I would also be glad to have invented bushcraft although it may have been harder to pan off as art.

I believe there is an important distinction though between the internet and art. The motivation behind creating an electronic calculator from a stone age situation obviously does not serve any specific function in terms of what we believe calculators are supposed to do. We could say that the SAEC’s purpose is to create an open debate (which is obviously does) or a discussion which I think is important but this is often an oversimplification.

The calculator may have evolved for a number of reasons, one of which may have been a sort of technological natural selection. The idea being that those technologies that succeed in fulfilling human wants are further invested in. Soon those technologies change our value systems as they change our environment. Right? But somehow is it possible that we have reached a point in the western world where the technology has provided our basic necessities and is damaging our more complex spiritual or emotional needs?

In Freud civilization and discontents he writes about mans innate contradiction with civilized society where by man will always be dissatisfied because organized society creates a degree of restraint but there is a problem because the natural world is also a source to great suffering. What if we tried to redefine our technologies on and reboot to an older value system? This is where the project begins. It is a question, a proposition, a possible task a “happening”. It defines an urgent moment in history where we have to ask ourselves these questions, or raise these ideas or approach this aesthetic. This is why it is not only art because anything can really be art, it is contemporary art. Art that define our culture presently.

But are we already changing our technologies to suite these emotional needs? The loss of the collective communication has been occurring for a long period of time, specialization has created longer working days and more isolated structured human behavior. The internet in specific web 2.0 is opening up resurgence in collective activity and debate. A resurgence of society and collective interaction that can change the authoritarian super structure if guided properly. So it is not specifically the use of collaboration that is the focus of my work but a medium that is used to support my first argument. I hope that answers your first question.

Sorry if this is a bit wordy but I lack the skills to simplify. Anyone one who would like to edit this little artist statement I would love to make this more accessible.

2nd question

Relational art or art about the relationships that occur between peoples is a fairly new practice and does change the way we look at the practice of making art. The idea is that the author or the artist's concept begins to fade. We all get the credit. Who is the author of bushcraft I don't know? The project will be exhibited on May the 12th either in an archive or as a book or as a website. Or maybe a forum discussion on bushcraft who knows But there will be a name indicating who put the archive there and this is because the art scene still has not figured out a way to move on from the gallery situation. Perhaps I put everyone who contributed on the project description on the wall. Hey I think that is a really good idea. But do I put everyone who did anything? Or rank in order? Or put no names at all? Hmm well if none participates I guess we will never know.

P.S. would you mind if I reposted our little discussion on my site?

 

[Cameron]

Sisyphus

"Cheers I understand more now about what you're doing, and this is particularly interesting and rings quite true" amazing! a million thanks. It is nice to feel like you have communicated something I was wondering however what you meant by "I think wikipedia may have already beaten you to it" to what exactly?

Toddy and Tadpole

understood guys and I of coarse respect your decision. But my question was directed at firecrest

 

[Cameron]

right understood.

 

[Cameron]

p.s. toddy
Just out of curiosity and in the interest of the private vs. public discussion do I need to have permission to quote you in other pages?

 

[Cameron]

what would be the consequences?

 

[Cameron]

Toddy I approached this wrongly? Was there anything unfriendly about my question? Just interested in the discussion around copy written material. Untrustworthy hmm think there may be point here.

2. COPYRIGHT
All Website design, text, graphics, and the selection and arrangement thereof, and all source code and all other material on this Website are copyright Bushcraft Media Limited or its content providers, unless otherwise expressly indicated. All rights reserved. You are permitted to print or download extracts from this material for your personal use only. None of this material may be used for any commercial or public use. No part of the Website or any material appearing on the Website may be reproduced, stored in or transmitted to any other web site. No material appearing on the Website may be disseminated in any form, either electronic or non-electronic, nor included in any retrieval system or service without the prior written permission of Bushcraft Media Limited. Any other use of the material and content of the Website is strictly prohibited. You agree that you will not (and will not assist or facilitate any third party to) copy, reproduce, transmit, publish, display, distribute, commercially exploit or create derivative works of such material and content, except under those conditions described above.

Just found this piece of material in the rules and regulation. What it is saying is in actuality is that once I place this email on this site that it belongs to Bushcraft. Were you aware that Bushcraft owns our conversation?

xylaria
I would never pas any information off as my own work. My website has no such copywrite law.

 

[Toddy]

This site attracts enthusiasts and interested folks for the crafts, skills, lifestyles that come under the heading Bushcraft (yeah, yeah, define bushcraft )

You 'seem' to be none of those, you simply wish to use our knowledge.

You did not even do us the simple courtesy of an introduction, or acknowledge that this site has conventions about posting links.

When called upon this you respond with sarcasm.

We do know that our conversations on this site effectively 'belong' to BcUK. However, we also know that we can Edit them out if we so choose, and that the character of the site owner is such that we are assured that there will be no untoward usage made of our posts.
This also means that the site owner is responsible for the content of the posts we make, that they remain legal, decent and family friendly.

Personally I think you have had enough air time and I will not respond further.......unless to edit my posts which won't bring this thread to the head of the queue again

Toddy

 

[Cameron]

Toddy

Hi my name is Cameron MacLeod I am a Canadian artist based in Sweden.

Yes I do hope to use your knowledge but I think borrow is a better term this would exclude a possible reference to ownership. I think you misunderstand friend. I am not trying to be sarcastic.

Why would you edit your posts?

"This also means that the site owner is responsible for the content of the posts we make, that they remain legal, decent and family friendly." Can't the administrator still censor the

Nice pic red is this from your latest performance piece? Wish I could have opening a little busy with a new website project. Maybe next time.

I am interested if others know that bushcraft owns your postings? and what your opinion is on this?

 

[C_Claycomb]

Right, enough of this.
Given all your questions about copy right and ownership of posts I have hidden the majority of posts, hopefully before you decide to copy and quote anyway.

I have already spent what I feel to be enough time following this thread, so I do not feel inclined to spell out for you why the copy right is set up the way it is for this site. Suffice it to say that its like that for a reason, it protects the members, and the site owner, has worked well thus far, and no one has had reason to complain. As someone who joined up purely to exploit the membership for your own purposes, you don't have much reason to complain either.

It is usually thought polite for someone in your position to contact the admin before starting a thread like this. Others have done so and things have been worked out. If you were a business or had an event that would be benefiting you in some way, the typical way that it is handled is that you would be able to make a single post announcing the resource that you have made available. I realise that you have been coming back here to answer remarks, but you have managed to do so with a singular lack of specific information and I can't help think that your project will do as well if you just stir up a debate. That the title of the site is just to get people talking.

I think that nearly everyone who has replied to this thread has done so in a manner that shows that they are not very interested in visiting your site to take part in your "Art" project. We are not very interested in having you trying to stir up a debate on this site to further your "art" either.

If you want to chat about bushcraft and wilderness skills, places of interest, or tools and equipment, please do so.

If you wish to prepare a single post advertising your site and inviting people to take part (I suggest that you explain who you are, what you are trying to achieve and what you will get out of it all), then we can put it in the Resources sub forum and leave people to find their way to your project if they wish.

Finally, I can't speak of consequences for copying large chunks of the forum for your own site, but I can say that your posting style is heading towards spam and the consequence for spamming the forum is invariably a permanent ban. The occasional troll has also been banned.

Where things go from here is your call.

Regards