Survival in the UK now

Silverclaws

Forager
Jul 23, 2009
249
1
Plymouth, Devon
You know messing about with my fire making methods the other day in the comfort of my kitchen and failing I came to realise the majority of us are stuck in terms of coping if our modern age comes to an abrupt or even a slow stop as things are getting hard in the UK, poverty is becoming a real problem for many and many that fail to meet various criteria for state or charity aid, but without our modern conveniences we are well and truly stuffed.

Spurred by that thought I later read a rather interesting website on what faced the early pioneers in the colonisation of America the basic skill of creating a flame, making rush lights and tapersand there I realised centuries of knowhow has gone or at least is resigned to some quaint craft for some. But not is all lost there are the preppers who collect gadgets and objects just in case and with that feeding consumerism that is perhaps part of the problem with us, in that we don't need skills when there is a gadget that can be bought to do the job, but do the preppers realise modern conveniences have the nasty habit of running out, breaking and just plain not lasting, if an extended situation presents itself no amount of buying now just in case will help for long, then what will they do?

And so having previously failed to get a flame going in my kitchen with flint, steel, magnesium and char cloth, I knew despite what modern technologies we can apply in terms of processed flint and magnesium blocks it is the skill we need not what we can buy and of survival gadgets, perhaps what the past offered is a better option and so we would be better investing our time and money in rediscovering the past, learning how it was done and practice it, because without electricity and oil, two things essential to our modern lives and two things getting very expensive, there is not a lot we can do if we do not know how to obtain the necessaries from nature like our ancestors did.

As to the hypothetical survival situation, for many we are either in it or on the edges of it, especially so if Beechcroft's report is acted upon, mass unemployment we will be in a situation necessitating what we can do, not what we can buy and with that the past holds the clues to our future, long dead skills need to be revived and quick as industrialisation is but one of the events that has taken away centuries of skill and understanding, some stuff still used in the seventeenth century was later found out to have also been used by the Romans 1600 years previously, skills that stood the test of time because they worked.

But what of myself, well my failure to obtain a flame told me my old skills I was unpracticed in, I was annoyed with myself for I had become lazy and complacent and although in theory I could do a lot, without practicing that theory, that is all it will be and one is doubly damned. Much of what I know was from doing historical re enactment, living history, but I have not done that for gone ten years and I am that out of practice, I need to pull my finger out I think.
 

caffeine

Banned
Jul 29, 2012
172
0
Earth
practice practice practice ... if the one method fails see why its failing and alter your approach ... I remember once just after I bought my first flint I went out camping and me and a friend had a competition to see who could light a fire first using only the flint and what we had around us ... WE BOTH FAILED ... it was raining everything was damp and we were free camping near to the edge of a huge cliff (we didnt realise it was a cliff until we'd set everything up ill explain in a mo) anyway we both admitted defeat and used a lighter (I always carry a few)

When I got home I was certain this would never happen again ... with the power of youtube and 2 weeks worth of lighting my fire from nothing more than a piece of pine wood.

I use the feather stick method and make LOADS always make 3 times the amount of tinder and stage one kindling that way u know there's going to be enough to get the fire started even if it takes a little extra time its worth the effort .... then after making some feather sticks I turn my knife 90 degrees to the piece of wood and scrape as many fine (almost saw dust) fibres from the wood once I have a nice pile of that I make a wooden platform to raise the fire from the ground and try to make some kind of bed for my shavings / sawdust hit it with a spark and once you get an ember its pretty easy to get the feather sticks lit.

And that pitch we pitched up late (somewhere in dovedale) ... and @ about 12 oclock whilst sitting next to the fire my friend kicked a rock from the dirt bank we were sitting on and it took about 4/5 seconds before it hit the bottom of the face. We were more careful with kit etc after we realised how high and where the pitch was lol :)

The next day was spent doing some climbing in the valley :)

Youtube is great too use it to average things out .... watch many videos and take the important points from the ones you think are best. There are loads of people claiming to be bushcraft experts on there but you can spot the phonies a mile off.
 
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Beefy0978

Forager
Jul 18, 2012
198
0
South west
The difference this time round is that without the gadgets, oil or electricity, the supermarkets will be empty in three days. So buying stuff now might get you through the first few months or so and buy time to learn and assess. It will not be a pleasant time.
As for the old skills, they are highly necessary, I believe every child should be taught this stuff at school or scouts or the like. But, if everyone knew them and the lights went out nature too would be stripped in a few weeks by the sheer number of us. The old ways work with old days populations. There's a reason we intensively farm rather than let nature run the show.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,886
2,138
Mercia
But not is all lost there are the preppers who collect gadgets and objects just in case and with that feeding consumerism that is perhaps part of the problem with us, in that we don't need skills when there is a gadget that can be bought to do the job, but do the preppers realise modern conveniences have the nasty habit of running out, breaking and just plain not lasting, if an extended situation presents itself no amount of buying now just in case will help for long, then what will they do?

I think you must have been talking to some wierd form of prepper. Most of the ones I know are as far from "consumerism" as its possible to get. There are potters, beekeepers, chicken keepers, gardeners, hunters, bowyers, blacksmiths, soap makers, green wood workers and many other types.

Most real "preppers" are as close to latter day "homesteaders" as its possible to be in this country. Most I know are about being debt free, having the ability to produce their own food, fuel, cleaning supplies, clothes etc.

Of course all these skills may not be necessary in our daily lives.

But then neither is bushcraft....and homesteading skills are far more diverse and can be practiced every day
 

Silverclaws

Forager
Jul 23, 2009
249
1
Plymouth, Devon
My reading of the website mentioned revealed just about everyone carried a tinder box and used the charred cloth method of lighting from a carbon steel striker and natural flint, so as I have a smithy at my disposal, my intention is to make a tinder box of old with the damper, the steel striker and flints, well they are everywhere down here, and quartz too, so no problems there and the plan is, to practice with that kind of stuff and so understand my modern processed stuff should be easier to use, but sparks I can so far generate, well, that's easy, the next step creating and keeping a flame is the hard bit. I understand in the past splinters of wood dipped in sulphur were used to carry the flame, where in Britain would one find sulphur naturally, or was this at that point in time a result of trade ?

My existence at the moment, in times when there was a bit of extra cash about, stocking up on Lidl's tins was the thing only for that stock to be used up when times were harder and I have noticed it is getting harder each time, periods of low funds are lasting longer, even the smithy fuel is getting difficult to get, coke is not used much anymore in industry and certainly not down here, so I am investigating charcoal burning for the quantities of fuel I need.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
where in Britain would one find sulphur naturally, or was this at that point in time a result of trade ?

This question was brought up at a recent meet with wayland, decorum, debs, and myself. It was also at this meet that Wayland was making Sulphur matches.
It was thought that most of the early sulphur would have come to Britain via trade routes, firstly by the Romans, then Vikings and northern european merchants from the northern volcanos.
 

Tristar777

Nomad
Mar 19, 2011
269
0
North Somerset UK
Hi. I dont think Ill bother prepping etc its a waste of time for me. If the **** and the modern world stopped and we went back to the old ways, Id be dead in a matter of weeks no matter what food stuff etc I stocked up on. I depend on the modern worlds ability to produce life sustaining drugs and medication so I may as well eat drink n be happy for tomorrow we die.
 

Silverclaws

Forager
Jul 23, 2009
249
1
Plymouth, Devon
Hi. I dont think Ill bother prepping etc its a waste of time for me. If the **** and the modern world stopped and we went back to the old ways, Id be dead in a matter of weeks no matter what food stuff etc I stocked up on. I depend on the modern worlds ability to produce life sustaining drugs and medication so I may as well eat drink n be happy for tomorrow we die.

Well, there is a lo of truth to be had in the saying; Live each day as if it were your last, but it is always wise to keep something back so in future one may again live each ay as if it were your last. But there is a lot of satisfaction to be had from crafting something useful oneself out of well throw away materials of even what nature has provided, instead of delving once again into the wallet as if it was a bottomless pit.

Sulphur, I have a few kilo's of the stuff, obtained in mistake for liver of sulphur, but aside from volcanoes, I do agree what those in the seventeenth century and before had was most likely the result of trade with Europe at least; Etna.
 
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bigroomboy

Nomad
Jan 24, 2010
443
0
West Midlands
Now I'm all for being prepared, and basic skills are the most important part of that but I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you but you seam to be getting a bit worked up over something you don't know is going to happen. Things maybe a bit tougher than they have been in recent years but I think we are a long way from the collapse of the civilised world. Civilisation means that you don't have to be the master of every skill, it allows people to specialise at specific tasks. This has been happening since early man started grouping into extended family groupings (tribes). Some people are naturally better or more interested in almost every thing imaginable, this is what allows for humans to be so dominant on the planet. What I'm saying here is that in you would bring your skills to the table if disaster struck and you would probably find out that the guy down the road is a dab hand at fire lighting. Now I definitely believe in being prepared but I think it much more likely to be a short term problem you would face. That means that whilst primitive skills are great if they don't interest you or you are not too good at them then by all means keep practicing but always have other more reliable options in place.

Fear is a very powerful emotion and used by lots of people for their own gain, especially the media. But put things in perspective, Fuel is ridiculously cheap when you consider where it comes from and how freely people in this country can use it. So cheap that people can drive cars that are about 20% efficient at best and not even bother to insulate their homes. Food is so plentiful most of the western world can be obese and eat meat every day. Modern production means we can buy an axe as a weekend toy with little thought when once it would have been a most highly valued possession.

Things have never been better for people in the developed world, the most important focus should now be on bringing everybody in the world up to the same levels sustainably.
 
Nov 29, 2004
7,808
26
Scotland
"...the most important focus should now be on bringing everybody in the world up to the same levels sustainably..."

I think there will be a more level playing field, it just won't be the one we're currently comfortable with.

Survival skills for the UK?

Can you grow potatoes? :)
 
Sep 21, 2008
729
0
56
Dartmoor
I need to pull my finger out I think.

Yeah, get yerself down Capt'n Jaspers for half a yard of sausage and a mug of coffee :D

I think it is a little more complex than just a few hundred ears of modern development. Neolithic flint fragments found on the moor (Dartmoor has no flint) were found to have been brought in from other European sources - believed to have been traded. OK so now you hand over a tenner for a 'light my fire' fire steel but after 7000 years of development the concept of trading for your 'wants' still has similarities.

Me, I'm buying a job lot of disposable lighters ready for when 'the baloon goes up' :eek:


Nice to see a Janner on here :)
 

Silverclaws

Forager
Jul 23, 2009
249
1
Plymouth, Devon
My interest in past methods was because well even my attempts at fire making with my processed flint rod, well, it was pretty worn by the time I gave up and that level of wear when such things are not easily obtainable even if one has the money, well, what is one to do, as in Plym, the only places I know where the processed flint and steel can be bought is in the city, various high street outdoor shops and of course my favourite; Gould's. Flint, my local beach there is a fair old bit of it on it, as there is quartz, the beach being a mixture of igneous, sedimentary and metamorphic geology, and some fantastic layered rock formations, formations twisted and folded over, the south west must have been a very active place at one time.

Be careful the cheap lighters, the real cheapies must be filled with marsh gas, as whatever is in them don't light and stay lit very well.

But alas not a Janner a Lancastrian, that has moved down here and is staying here now as this area ticks all the boxes for me. Parents were from here though and I have a lot of ancestry in this area, so, it could be said I have come home.
 
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SCOMAN

Life Member
Dec 31, 2005
2,607
458
54
Perthshire
Sorry to hijack the thread a little but I am now drooling for a Cap'n Jaspers. Goulds is good but Bogeys Knights down Mutton Cove is better.
 

Silverclaws

Forager
Jul 23, 2009
249
1
Plymouth, Devon
We have sulphur in the UK.
If you look at old mineral well sites, and the mining reports of the 17th/18th and 19th centuries, you can still trace the stuff.
The keyword is fumeroles. Sulphur is found round volcanic vents and has been mined in the UK until cheap (very much cheaper) imports made the mines unprofitable.

For instance,
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/c/cae_coch_sulphur_mine/index.shtml

cheers,
Toddy

Interesting and pyrites themselves are a fire source as in smacking two chunks together produces a shower of sparks along with the sulphurous smell.

But Bogey Knights once it is found, is a fascinating place and the stuff that can be had there at very reasonable prices, even a boat I helped sort out, the antifouling was RN submarine stuff, some got on my para boots and since that area will not take a shine with polish.
 
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Sep 21, 2008
729
0
56
Dartmoor
Sorry to hijack the thread a little but I am now drooling for a Cap'n Jaspers. Goulds is good but Bogeys Knights down Mutton Cove is better.

Have you been there? It's bleddy lovely having half a yard of sausage in a bun with relish and cup of instant coffee :D



Bogey Knights is a superb place :bigok:
 

udamiano

On a new journey
We have sulphur in the UK.
If you look at old mineral well sites, and the mining reports of the 17th/18th and 19th centuries, you can still trace the stuff.
The keyword is fumeroles. Sulphur is found round volcanic vents and has been mined in the UK until cheap (very much cheaper) imports made the mines unprofitable.

For instance,
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/c/cae_coch_sulphur_mine/index.shtml

cheers,
Toddy

Now thats something I didn't know! thanks for that Toddy. Made very interesting reading
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,886
2,138
Mercia
Parsnips...food of the Gods!

Sweet chestnuts......check (same calorific output per acre as wheat)
Cobnuts.......check
Walnuts....check

Mr smug :)
 

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