Stove advice please

[cbr6fs]

Hi guys,

I'm currently using a Triad meths burning stove, but to be honest it's pretty much useless as it's taking far too long to boil water.

So i started looking for a gas canister based system like the crux stove and Jetboil systems.
But i then thought why restrict myself to just gas when i could buy a multi-fuel system, use it on gas most the time but have the ability to use meths etc when needed.

Problem is though i cannot find anywhere locally that stocks any half decent stove, never mind multi-fuel ones so I'm going to have to order blind off the internet so would like some advice and recommendations please.


First off,
Is there any downside to using a multi-fuel stove on butane gas compared to a gas specific stove, i.e.does a multi-fuel put out the same heat as a gas specific stove?

I'm guessing that the burners jets would need to be changed depending on the type of fuel used (on multi-fuel type), is this a fiddly job?


I did consider the a few of the Jetboil systems, as I'm looking to use the stove with a pan that utilises a heat exchanger, but the pots tend to be long and slim so from the reviews I've read i believe i would struggle to fit a 200ml as all reports have said anything around 200ml is REALLY tight.

Am also interested in the other heat exchanger type pans like the ETAPower, Optimus Crux Weekend HE Cook, any experiences please?


Basically i'm looking for a fast, lightweight cooking system that packs away into as small a footprint as possible.
90% of the time it will be used to heat up water for a cuppa tea, or a tin of soup while out hiking, the other 10% of the time i intend to use it for camp cooking duties.
Ideally i'll have something like a 400ml pan for when I'm out alone, and a bigger 1 litre pan for when I'm out with mates (cause it's not like they'll have their own stoves).

As i say i already have a meths burning stove and have used trangias for years before so really do not fancy one of them, wood burning is out of the question as well.

I don't really have a budget limit but I'm not going to pay an extra £100 over another stove just to save 5gm.

So thoughts, ideas and advice much appreciated.



Cheers
Mark

 

[mountainm]

Hey Mark

How long was your triad taking for how much water? I tend to find all the meths burner I've used perform reasonably well as long as they're shielded.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Shewie]

The Triad is not the best alky stove, have you tried any others?

 

[cbr6fs]

Hi Mike,

It's taking around 2 mins to bloom then anything from 6 to 10 mins to boil.

If it's warm out an extra few mins is nothing, but when it's cold as this is just a pit stop i like to just have a cuppa and go rather than hang around.
Often i'll even drink the tea or soup while on the go after brewing up.

Plus it's illegal to have fires here, so the quicker i can have my water/soup warmed and be on my way the better.

 

[cbr6fs]

The Triad is not the best alky stove, have you tried any others?

Hi Shewie,

Aye i've had a few trangias over the years as well.

No doubt meths stoves have their place, but in this instance i really just want a quick easy way of warming up a cup or something and to be on my way as quick as possible, so no meths for in these circumstances for me.

 

[mountainm]

Hmmm, my tantonka can get the volcano cup to a rolling boil in about 4-5 mins - and the 700ml glogg boiling in about 8. But the volcano stove does channel the heat really well. Have you got a lid on your cup? Makes a big difference.

 

[Shewie]

The Jetboils are worth a look then, they're a nice compact package and fast too. I got the Sol Ti a couple of months ago and I'm really liking it so far.

I've also had really good service from my MSR Whisperlite, I burnt nothing else but unleaded in it for 12 years, I've only just switched over to Aspen which is much cleaner.

 

[Paul_B]

Depending on pot shape and size the whitebox stove is a fast meths burner. It needs a widish pot though but I use my vargo ti-lite pot/mug on it ok. Just need to use something to grip the handles for a short while til they cool. I think it is the quickest until you get to the caldera cones that is.

 

[cbr6fs]

Hmmm, my tantonka can get the volcano cup to a rolling boil in about 4-5 mins - and the 700ml glogg boiling in about 8. But the volcano stove does channel the heat really well. Have you got a lid on your cup? Makes a big difference.

Aye lid is indeed attached.

As i say meths burners have their place, but as i already have a meths burner i'm really looking for recommendations for a decent gas burner and if it's worth stumping up a few more quid for a multi-fuel.

The Jetboils are worth a look then, they're a nice compact package and fast too. I got the Sol Ti a couple of months ago and I'm really liking it so far.

I've also had really good service from my MSR Whisperlite, I burnt nothing else but unleaded in it for 12 years, I've only just switched over to Aspen which is much cleaner.

Only thing that put me off Jetboils are:

1/ The pot attaches to the stove, not keen on this as i only have the use of 1 arm, so it'd be difficult separating the cup/pot and stove when hot.

2/ The cup/pot is fairly small in diameter so the larger gas canisters do not fit inside.

I do like the look of the Sol Ti though.

Depending on pot shape and size the whitebox stove is a fast meths burner. It needs a widish pot though but I use my vargo ti-lite pot/mug on it ok. Just need to use something to grip the handles for a short while til they cool. I think it is the quickest until you get to the caldera cones that is.

As i say i already have a half decent meths burner and having used Trangia's for years before that i know that a meths burners is not what i want in these circumstances.



In theory a gas specific stove should be setup from the factory for a very specific stoichiometric ratio, whereas a multi-fuel will have a wider stoichiometric zone as it burns different fuels.
So in theory i'm thinking a multi-fuel will not burn as efficiently as a quality gas only stove unless the jets as swapped.

So has anyone compared a gas specific to a multi-fuel stove on gas?

 

[Shewie]

Only thing that put me off Jetboils are:

1/ The pot attaches to the stove, not keen on this as i only have the use of 1 arm, so it'd be difficult separating the cup/pot and stove when hot.

The pot has a twist lock with a couple of sticky out nubs and slots, to be honest though I don't lock it as it's a pain to free when it's full of boiling water. With it just slotted in the top it doesn't go anywhere.

2/ The cup/pot is fairly small in diameter so the larger gas canisters do not fit inside.

The Sol pot isn't very big at all, it'll take a 100 or 200g cart though, I think with the 200 inside you need to store the burner elsewhere, or leave the lid off. The Sol is aimed at lightweight shorter trips, with resupply or additional carts carried.

I do like the look of the Sol Ti though.

It is a sweet little stove, I'll be using mine on the TGO Challenge in May, picking up gas carts in my food parcels along the way.

. .

Good review of the Sol here

 

[bigroomboy]

Hi

I'll make two recommendations based on my experiences. Unfortunately for you neither of them burn gas but I will come on to that.

What I have and love and use most of the time is an MSR dragonfly. This stove is unreal, it will burn anything but meths and gas but I wouldnt get too hung up on multifuel. Realistically you are only going to burn petrol. Probably just panel wipe or aspen when near home or trips or unleaded in a pinch. On an expedition you have to ask what is the most likely fuel you will come across and again if there is no petrol around then you probably are not on this planet and if far more likely than Jet A1 or others. Having said that I do like the comfort of knowing that if I was travelling say in a diesel land cruiser on the desert then I would have a years supply of fuel travelling right with me.

Now to some things I have noted about the dragon fly, its quite loud, its a cosy sound but you notice when you turn it off. People say the pump is weak, I don't know it seams strong enough to me if you don't try to break it but I have come across to problems. 1) sand - I camped on a small beach once for 2 nights and sand got in everything as always but it also got in the pump and that was no good till it was cleaned. 2) I tried to service the valve on the pump after reassembly I found it leaked and could not be stopped. MSR replaced the pump and said I had a very rare one where on the production line it had been over tightened in the first place, I'm not sure and now too scared to touch it gain on the new pump.

The performance is epic though it is a little concentrated in its flame spread and would really benefit I think for the use of a pot with a heat exchanger but I don't have one.


A friend of mine had a coleman 442, as I mentioned above I dont think multifuel is that important but I don't like gas because its expensive, there is huge waste in cartidges, and you never know how much is left in one so end up wit loads of half empty ones.

Anyway the coleman, its much cheaper than the dragonfly, almost as powerful, almost silent. Great for the money.

God that went on a bit. I hope it was a least a bit useful?

 

[Robbi]

have you thought about the Optimus Crux folding stove ? i use one all the time and its a great little power house :

http://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/optimus-crux-folding-gas-stove-3579-p.asp

if you use the smaller gas cannister it all fits in a pocket

 

[cbr6fs]

. .

Good review of the Sol here

Great thanks.

I'm really really close to pulling the plug on a Sol Ti, it's really a toss up with that and the Optimus Crux Weekend HE Cook System.
One thing i didn't check was the availability of screw type gas cannisters here, pretty much every supermarket over here has the push on puncture type as many households use these to make Greek coffee.

But i'll check to see if i find the screw on type locally as shipping them over here is going to be a nightmare.

Hi

I'll make two recommendations based on my experiences. Unfortunately for you neither of them burn gas but I will come on to that.

What I have and love and use most of the time is an MSR dragonfly. This stove is unreal, it will burn anything but meths and gas but I wouldnt get too hung up on multifuel. Realistically you are only going to burn petrol. Probably just panel wipe or aspen when near home or trips or unleaded in a pinch. On an expedition you have to ask what is the most likely fuel you will come across and again if there is no petrol around then you probably are not on this planet and if far more likely than Jet A1 or others. Having said that I do like the comfort of knowing that if I was travelling say in a diesel land cruiser on the desert then I would have a years supply of fuel travelling right with me.

Now to some things I have noted about the dragon fly, its quite loud, its a cosy sound but you notice when you turn it off. People say the pump is weak, I don't know it seams strong enough to me if you don't try to break it but I have come across to problems. 1) sand - I camped on a small beach once for 2 nights and sand got in everything as always but it also got in the pump and that was no good till it was cleaned. 2) I tried to service the valve on the pump after reassembly I found it leaked and could not be stopped. MSR replaced the pump and said I had a very rare one where on the production line it had been over tightened in the first place, I'm not sure and now too scared to touch it gain on the new pump.

The performance is epic though it is a little concentrated in its flame spread and would really benefit I think for the use of a pot with a heat exchanger but I don't have one.


A friend of mine had a coleman 442, as I mentioned above I dont think multifuel is that important but I don't like gas because its expensive, there is huge waste in cartidges, and you never know how much is left in one so end up wit loads of half empty ones.

Anyway the coleman, its much cheaper than the dragonfly, almost as powerful, almost silent. Great for the money.

God that went on a bit. I hope it was a least a bit useful?

Fantastic post, really helpful and insightful thanks.

Unfortunately i'm not really interested in buying a petrol stove at this time.
As i say 90% of the time i just want the ability to stop and make a quick cuppa and move on, so i really do not want to be messing about priming and pumping up the bottle pressure etc.

The Muti-fuel might be an advantage to me sometimes, but it's more useful to me to have a stove that fits inside it's own small pot, rather than have a bag for the stove, the fuel bottle and then another bottle with fuel in in case the fuel bottle leaks.

I had an old Coleman stove a few years ago and it really wasn't much quicker (boil times) than my Trangia, but i still had to mess about priming it, having bunged nozzles etc.

have you thought about the Optimus Crux folding stove ? i use one all the time and its a great little power house :

http://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/optimus-crux-folding-gas-stove-3579-p.asp

if you use the smaller gas cannister it all fits in a pocket

As i said above i'm really swaying towards either the Crux Weekend HE Cook System or the Sol Ti.

They both come with pots that have the heat exchanger underneath.
The Crux system is a fair bit cheaper, the Sol Ti looks to be lighter and looks to be slightly smaller when packed up.
The Sol Ti does have it's own ignition source which is useful.

Tough choice.

 

[johnboy]

A lot of 'multifuel' stoves will use different Jets for differing fuels.
Yep you have to change out the Jet if you swap fuel types. Although IMHO a lot of Multifuels use the same jet for Gasoline and LPG.

Most Multifuel stoves with the exception of some of the coleman models ( which are really dual fuel) need to be primed to pre heat the stove to allow the stove to vapourise the liquid fuel you are using.


While there are lots of stoves that burn 'gas' to my mind they fall into two types.

Gas stoves designed to run on LPG vapour only.
Gas stoves designed to run on vapour or Liquid LPG.

The Optimus Crux, Jetboil PCS, MSR Pocket Rocket etc are vapour only.
The Primus Gravity EF, MSR Windpro, Jetboil Helios etc are vapour / liquid

Stoves like the Gravity EF have a vapourisation tube which allows you to the invert the canister and with care feed the stove with Liquid LPG which then gets vapourised. This is a useful feature if the stove is being used in very low temps. If you don't intend to use gas in low temps then a stove that runs on LPG vapour only is a good idea as it's likely to be lighter.

However there is a 'new' concept on the market a vapour only stove that can run in low temps.

Stoves like the SOTO OD-1R use a 'regulator' mechanisim to operate the stove on a low vapour pressure which is generally what you get with a LPG canister in low temps.

The MSR Reactor has a similar mechanisim.

Most modern performance gas stoves will be threaded 7/16th NS for an EN417 Spec Lindal valved canister.

If you are in Greece with lots of the older EN417 190g pierceables you can buy an adaptor that converts a pierceable to 7/16 NS.

My personal view is if you want a fuss free stove that is easy to use and your not spending lots of time in low temps then go for a vapour only gas stove.

If you enjoy playing with stoves and might spend some time in cold weather then get a multifuel.

if you want fuss free operation and might/ will be in cold weather then look for a SOTO or Reactor..

HTH

 

[Paul_B]

I have used a Primus micron (old style with gauze centre to the burner to prevent bad hotspots) and it has been reliable indeed. The boil time is less than 4 minutes easily on full power but I turn it down a bit for fuel efficiency. I have gotten 7 days use out of a 100g can before now (primus fuel only as IMHO it is the best to get). That was on a 500ml boil for dinner, enough boiling water for a brew and some supernoodles at lunch and I'd say about 2 or 3 brews a day on top. It has no heat exchanger neither!! 7 days was my record but I typically get 5 or 6 days use these days from the small primus can, lot less from Coleman BTW so avoid if you can.

I reckon if I got the primus windshield it would be better but I use light foil windshield instead. i also use primus can feet for stability but a simple circular depression in the ground with your boot heel will hold the can and stove stable IME.

You could look at the primus eta stove. It is not the one like the jetboil but the original heat exchanger type where it is the heat exchanger pot, windshield and a basic primus can top stove. IIRC it is almost as efficient as the jetboil but the pot is separate from the burner as it is just a special pot on a basic but efficient burner. Think you can still get them for about the jetboil price.

 

[Karl82]

my advice is stick with the trangia they some of the best cook sets out their just be patient after all your out to enjoy yourself sit back relax and enjoy the view.

 

[21st century pict]

my advice is stick with the trangia

Ill second that , All the gas stoves are great when you live near a camping or outdoor store but you try finding half of these gas bottles in the North or North West of Scotland on any day of the week . Sunday into the garage bottle o meths no problem, Gas no thanks.
As for “taking far too long to boil water” keep it out of the wind and it seems just fine to me.

 

[Paul_B]

However the OP is asking for a quick brew kit from my understanding of his posts. A quick and easy to set up system that is small pack size, light and boils water fast is what I think he wants. Also he has ruled out meths for this particular use.

That means trangia is out of the lit of possibilities if I am right in assessing his posts. I tend to think that Trangia is not the answer to everything but one answer for a range of uses which is as wide or as narrow as the viewpoint of the person considering them.

 

[Karl82]

Yes Paul and I'm saying what's the rush enjoy the view and stick with the trangia he has got. Why do you go out into the countryside to rush everything chill relax and breath in the air.

 

[cbr6fs]

John,

Absolutely fantastic post, thank you.
The pierce/screw adapter is a huge help as well

Fortunately we very rarely get REALLY cold temps around here and if we do it's usually just a cold spell for a few days, so it sounds like a vapour type is more than man enough for the job.

The Multi-fuel stove was an idea simply because as i'm buying a stove i thought it would be better to get one that does everything.
After reading the advice here and looking around though i believe the top stacking type stove will be a better solution than the Multi-fuel type of off to the side.


Paul,

Great info thanks.
It sounds like i'll be better off with 100g canisters.

I did have the Primus Eta Express on my shortlist, but both the Jetboil and Crux systems seem to be both lighter and run slightly more efficient.



Karl,

I've had Trangia's for many years (before i knew better) and i'm in no doubt the Triad burner i am currently using is a fair bit quicker to boil, so there really is no sense in spending money buying a meths burner that's inferior in pretty much every way to the one i'm already using.

As i said before no doubt meths burners have their place, but in this instance i want something that will heat my water/soup/food fast, for the simple reason that it's illegal to have a fire of any type in some of the areas i walk.

Of course i'm sensible and would not cook in the summer months, plus i choose my area to cook in VERY carefully and clear it well and i've yet to see any cop or wardens in any area i've walked in during the last 12 years.
But still i much prefer to have a system with which i can warm up my water/food quickly then put it away.

So in this instance a typical meths burner is not a good choice compared to the gas burners that are being discussed.