Some bowdrill queries..

[bushcraftbob]

After a spell of putting the bow drill on the back burner, I have now decided to have another try, and I wont stop until I crack it and make an ember! I have just made myself a new drill/hearth set. I have a Hazel drill and a Lime hearth, both are well seasoned.

After creating a burn hole and then cutting the notch out, I tried to create my first ember. I started to drill nice and gently, gradually increasing speed and pressure, until quite a bit of smoke appears, at this point, after about 25/30 seconds I increase pressure and speed up as fast as possible. There is quite a bit of smoke at this point and I must admit I am quite excited as I think I have just created my first ember, but when I stop the smoke dies, there is plenty of black powder but no ember!

My first query is - can you use the hole to try and create a second ember, or must you make a new hole with a new notch?

The second query is the string keeps trying to work its way to the top of the drill, and sometimes pings off, which annoys me as I am sure the bow is staying parallel, and relatively close to the ground so why is the string still climbing to the top?

The third query is on the second attempt (using the same hole), the squeaking produced was deafening (i mean deafening), so much so I had to stop through fear of waking the neighbours! What makes it squeak?

And finally after a few attempts, the end of the drill looks a bit glazed over and I dont think its creating as much friction, so is it a good idea to shave a few mil off the end with the knife?

cheers everyone

 

[Nelis]

Yes sure you can use the same hole for more attemps... Worked for me anyway. I think the glazing on the end of the drill is because the friction heat hardens the tip of your drill.
I found when it started squeking, removing a small layer of the drill (both top and bottom end) helped a lot.

Also in my experience the term ember can be confusing as I have never been able to make a real solid ember. The ember that forms is in fact just somewhat compressed glowing powder. This is enough to start a fire though.

As with the bow sliding to the top when the bow is paralell, could it be your drill is slightly tapered to the top ??

Well this is my experiance anyway.... Maybe I'm doing things wrongly, but it works for me as it produces fire and that is ultimatly the goal.

 

[bushcraftbob]

Does it matter how thick the baseboard is? My baseboard is quite thick, about 1 1/2 inches??? Could this have a bearing on how hot the "powder" stays?

 

[Nelis]

Hmmmm couldn't say I have experience using haerth boards that thick, I would guess it doesn't help though because the ember will be even less dense then with a thinner board (When using a thinner board, the drilling action will compress the ember somewhat as it pushes the ember out of the notch).

If I were you I would have a go at a thinner hearth board. Maybe then you can tell us if it makes a difference....

 

[Mesquite]

Does it matter how thick the baseboard is? My baseboard is quite thick, about 1 1/2 inches??? Could this have a bearing on how hot the "powder" stays?

I'm no expert but I was taught that the thicker the baseboard the longer you have to drill before you get an adequate quantity of powder in the notch. The actual ember is actually created right at the top level where the powder is at its hottest from the drilling and then spreads downwards into the pile of powder.

The other thing I was taught was your base board ought to be about the same thickness as your drill to reduce the amount of drilling you have to do.

 

[andywinkk]

I hold the bow so its almost touching the floor to prevent the cord traveling up the drill, this usualy works for me

andy

 

[Paganwolf]

After a spell of putting the bow drill on the back burner, I have now decided to have another try, and I wont stop until I crack it and make an ember! I have just made myself a new drill/hearth set. I have a Hazel drill and a Lime hearth, both are well seasoned.

After creating a burn hole and then cutting the notch out, I tried to create my first ember. I started to drill nice and gently, gradually increasing speed and pressure, until quite a bit of smoke appears, at this point, after about 25/30 seconds I increase pressure and speed up as fast as possible. There is quite a bit of smoke at this point and I must admit I am quite excited as I think I have just created my first ember, but when I stop the smoke dies, there is plenty of black powder but no ember!

If the black powder looks like mini cylindrical needles rather than dust, you may have moisture in your kit. you will get good smoke and the makings of an ember but then it will die when you stop drilling.

My first query is - can you use the hole to try and create a second ember, or must you make a new hole with a new notch?

Yes if theres enough meat on the board

The second query is the string keeps trying to work its way to the top of the drill, and sometimes pings off, which annoys me as I am sure the bow is staying parallel, and relatively close to the ground so why is the string still climbing to the top?

You must keep the bow parrallel to the ground a wonky bow stroke will cause your cord to rise or fall and the spindle 90 deg to the hearth.

The third query is on the second attempt (using the same hole), the squeaking produced was deafening (i mean deafening), so much so I had to stop through fear of waking the neighbours! What makes it squeak?

Squeaking can be caused by to much downward pressure and or moisture in your drill or hearth board

And finally after a few attempts, the end of the drill looks a bit glazed over and I dont think its creating as much friction, so is it a good idea to shave a few mil off the end with the knife?

Glazing can be caused by moisture in your bow drill spindle and hearth (could be the problem as you are squeaking too, its always a good idea to shave chips of the charred coating from end of your spindle it increases friction the second time round.

cheers everyone

Hope that helps.

 

[bushcraftbob]

Cheers for the advise Paganwolf. I reckon there must be some moisture lurking somewhere, so I'll try and dry the drill and baseboard. What would be the best way to do this? A few days in the airing cupboard??

cheers

 

[Mang]

Bushcraftbob, you sound as though you are at the same stage as me (I recently posted the 'I've nearly joined the FFFF' thread). I can get smoke and charring within 20-30 seconds but ulimately just produce hot shavings at the moment.

 

[Paganwolf]

Cheers for the advise Paganwolf. I reckon there must be some moisture lurking somewhere, so I'll try and dry the drill and baseboard. What would be the best way to do this? A few days in the airing cupboard??

cheers

Give it a go you have nothing to lose eh, if that fails try another set up say a willow or alder hearth board, do no under any circumstances give up keep going buddy your technique sounds about there if your getting a partial ember you neet that last bit of extra heat, AKA the bow drill vinigar strokes lol

 

[bushcraftbob]

Bow drill vinigar strokes LOL need to build me stamina up!

cheers for the tips chaps

Manq - well apparently we are almost there so just need to keep at it! Cant wait to actually put the ember in to the grass and blow it to flames.

 

[andy_e]

If you can maintain speed and pressure you'll get there. I found that keeping the pressure fairly light to start with and building up speed first then increasing the pressure gradually until there's good smoke, finally ramp up both the speed and pressure (in that order) for the last few seconds - gets me an ember almost every time.

The other thing I've found is that the glazing you get is usually due to insufficient pressure and that you don't need to scrape it off. When you come to use the glazed drill start with a bit more pressure and that glazing will turn into lovely black powder.

Moisture shouldn't really be a problem. If you suspect that it is, I've heard that you can drill three holes, burn them all in and use the centre hole. The heat from the two on either side will have helped dry the centre hole enough that your wood should work fine.

 

[Joonsy]

first queery - yes it is perfectly ok to use hole for second attempt, or even third, your hearth shouldn't be that thick to allow mote attempts than this though, 2cm to 2.5cm for hearth thickness is what i use.
second queery - if you are keeping your bow parallel try to also keep drill totally vertical, off vertical has the same effect, avoid drill straying off the vertical, if string still sliding try tilting bow as this will make string slide up or down depending on which way tilted, try using more than one twist with string on drill, keep string tight and well tensioned, rough-up drill where string sits, above all keep bow parallel it is easy to lose concentration on this when you speed up and put pressure on drill, practice this first without worrying about getting the ember then when swinging bow consistenly try for ember. Try using just thumb and one or two fingers to hold bow and relax grip, when using all fingers and grasping tightly it's easy to swing bow in a ''curved'' sort of way as when you extend your swing your tight grip with all fingers makes bow ''rise'' when pulling back and ''sink'' when pushing forward creating a ''curved'' action, relax your grip.
third queery - squeeking can be caused by drill being glazed (smooth and shiny) over from previous unsuccesful attempt, remove glaze with knife from both drill and hole in hearth and try again, glazing over in the first place can be caused by not using enough downward pressure on drill which also creates squeeking, if drill has not been kept vertical you will see that hole in hearth will be more oval than round and be deeper in one place than another, this binds drill making it difficult to rotate freely, it is vital to keep drill on the vertical.
make sure there is not a 'knot' in the timber where drill and hole meet. Try using sycamore for both drill and hearth, it's very good. Important to make sure the bearing block is not binding on drill, a very common fault, the bearing block must create as little friction as is possible and is often overlooked thinking the problem of failure lies elsewhere, while learning use something very smooth for bearing block like small glass jar or similar, anything smooth and slippery, it makes a huge difference to success, when competent with artificial bearing block go on to try wood bearing block, you will notice the difference immediately and the (hopefully) earlier succes will give confidence to proceed. Examine powder created, it should be black and powdery, if so and it is not smoking or smoking dies away as you say you are drilling correctly but giving up or stopping drilling prematurely, when hearth smokes drill for longer next time, if powder is more brownish than black then you are not creating enough heat so drill faster with more pressure next time. As a guide to swinging bow creating an ember should take less than two minutes, some do it in much less.

 

[bushcraftbob]

Thanks for your time in answering the queries Joonsy will be having a bash tonight so will let yall know how i get on

 

[Joonsy]

also the constant rotation of string on drill can smooth drill so watch string does not start slipping on drill, keep well tensioned, pull cord off lawn mowers or similar garden machinery is excellent for bow, grips well and very abrasion resistant, it's better than stuff like paracord. Have a nice evening ''''playing the fiddle'''' as they say. Good luck.

 

[FGYT]

im still new to it and dont practice often

i currently have hazel Drill and Hearth which works oks and a Holly Bow and bearing block

i use a Stiff naturally bent bow (holly) so the string has to be the right tension but i can change the tension by squeasing the string to the bow with my bow hand trigger finger while "fiddling" this seems to work well for me
I dont have problems with the string rising or falling on the Drill and can control this

I have found squeaking from the hand block and drill this is cured by a bit of green leaf as a lubricant
or from a Hole being to deep so its actually rubbing the side of the drill you can pare the drill of open the top of the hole a little to help

the glazed bit needs removing as does pointing of the bit

a thick base board does seem to cause problems with the hot powder cooling as it falls the long distance so maybe a deep used hole in this case helps by reducing the board thickness

ATB

Duncan

 

[scanker]

im still new to it and dont practice often

That sums me up too. I was looking in Graves last night and I think it said that, around the drill, the string should be higher on the handle side of the bow. I can't remember how I set it in last time, but I'll check the next time.

I've found it online:

To use a fireset, the drill is put under the thong, and twisted so that the drill finally is on the outer side of the thong, and with that portion of the thong nearest the handle of the bow on the upper side of the drill. This is important.

http://tions.net/CA256EA900408BD5/vwWWW/outdoor~03~052

 

[littlebiglane]

Now...I am not boasting (much). But when I first tried I was careful in selecting the best combination of wood. I came across this on the web

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/storm_inquiry/Bow_Drill_inquiry.pdf

By Storm (RIP)

I used - according to his extensive testing - hazel spindle and english ivy hearthboard.

Within one hour of starting for the first time I had flame. Admittedly the first attempt took me 57 minutes! Second attempt...a bit clumsy with the spindle still....but it came to life.

LBL

 

[bushcraftbob]

I DID IT! I have made an amber with the bowdrill I am te happiest bushcrafter in buscraft land!

I had another go last night and did it on my first attempt, it was such a good ember that i even managed to run to the shed and grab my bag of tinder, and it was still smoking when i got back!

Thanks for all the pointers guys, cant wait to have another go tonight to prove it wasnt a fluke

cheers all

 

[FGYT]

first time i tryed (properly ) was rediculasly easy last year at the wilderness gathering on the Master class
after the demo we got a full kit issued and i had ember in a minute or so and easy to flame
this was with the School kit which has been selected by and expert and dryed over a long time etc

we mad our own kits up in the woods and even selectng dead dry wood i never got an ember its taken nearly a year of drying to get the kit to work still hit and miss mostly being to busy and forgetting its there its worked a few times mostly it dont but its probably practice and experiance thats needed to let the subconcious work it out


yes the best is the hand end thong higher as you normally have this end higher so this prevents teh thong from rubbing on it self

mean to try a Ivy board but need to find a bit

ATB

Duncan