Smokeless fires in a tipi

[mark a.]

Whilst staying in our Tentipi over winter we twice tried lighting a fire inside, both fairly unsuccessful. We had the Tentipi fire box which in theory helps things along, but it wasn't long before the tent was completely smoked out!

With all three ground-level vents plus the top cap fully open we still weren't getting anywhere near enough updraft to force the smoke out. So in the end to avoid choking to death we had to open the door as well, pretty much making it as cold as if we just hadn't bothered with the fire!

Both times we used charcoal which, when hot, is pretty smokeless... except these times!

Do any of you tipi owners have handy hints on how to get that romantic look (like they have in their brochures!) of open fire without people coughing and spluttering and without stinking out your sleeping bag for days...?

 

[Wallenstein]

Depending on how easy it is to move the firebox, it might be an idea to light charcoal outside and let it burn down for a while.

As with BBQing, you will get smoke / flame with charcoal initially... but after 20 mins it should have reduced to the hot glowing coals, which are pretty much smokeless.

Once it's glowing, adding extra small amounts of fuel shouldn't generate too much additional smoke.

 

[sandbender]

You can also flip the top cap off completely, this does provide more draw, but can let the rain in and although it's easy to flip off its not so easy to get it back on while the lavvu is up

 

[Matt Weir]

I Mark,

I think it's down to the science of fire. If you start with a very small hot fire by using small kindling and 'cheating' with fire lighters to give a hot ember bed as soon as possible and build it up gradually then smoke will be kept to a minimum but it's inevitable you will get some smoke until the vapours get up to temp.

Apologies if I'm quoting the obvious

 

[Matt.S]

Were you using charcoal, or briquettes? There is a significant difference; briquettes are only partly chrcoal, the rest is often clays, limestone, mineral coal fines, and possibly other things. That's the reason I use lumpwood (real) charcoal in my forge.

 

[gregorach]

Well, I don't know much about these fancy modern tipi-tents, or fire boxes, but I did used to have a couple of friends who lived in a proper plains-style tipi with an open fire. As I recall, the trick was to use fairly small firewood and make sure there was always flames showing. They used a big oak log, end-on, as a back-stop.

However, outside conditions could have a big effect on the level of interior smokiness. Sometimes you get that still air that your smoke just hangs in, and then there's really not much you can do except learn to live with it.

 

[mark a.]

I hadn't thought about the different types of charcoal. I think ours is just a random bag from Homebase so probably isn't the world's best. Thanks for that tip.

Good point also about outside conditions. I think both times we tried it there was pretty much no wind, so getting a "chimney draw" wasn't happening. However, I was wondering whether the heat of the fire should be able to generate its own draw... apparently not!

 

[gunnix]

I think it's much harder to have no smoke in a tentipi then in a real tipi which has smokeflaps, innertent etc. Although I have not tried a tentipi, but in the tipi I lived in the past months I experimented with having no smoke flaps and just a hole at the top to see how it would be in a kota (quite similar to tentipi) instead of a tipi. And I notice there's a lot more smoke, but it's still possible to have quite little smoke inside but then you really need to have a good fireplace (small size fireplace -stovesize- gets much hotter, smooth sides which reflect heat better back into fire, I have a tube running from outside into the bottom of the fireplace to have more airdraft, small stones heat up quicker then big ones) and a good fire like Matt mentions. I like pagode style fire best, but just make sure you start small and gradually go bigger and I don't go bigger then around 3inch diameter, and that you make sure the wood lies in a way so there's air in between the pieces (I know that's pretty obvious). Smoke flaps and innertent really help to get the smoke out and there you also need to be careful to put the smoke flaps in the right direction before starting the fire. And then it always depends how the wind is blowing.. But even if there's no wind the heat of the fire should get the smoke out after a while, it takes some time to heat it up. Though it also depends a lot on what size your tipi is, it's much harder to have little smoke in a 3m diameter tipi then in a 5m one. The wood I use is not super dry (just find what's lying around) and I make that up by splitting it smaller, it's a good thing if you enjoy working with the axe.

 

[mark a.]

That's good info, gunnix. Thanks.

It's one of those things that practice makes perfect - it's just a harsh lesson though in the meantime when you can't breathe! Still, getting it right with what I have will be a hell of a lot cheaper than buying the stove (although that we were very tempted several times throughout the winter!)

 

[Matt.S]

Alan,

basic charcoal recognition guide: lumpwood (real) coal looks like black wood. The good stuff is hard, chinks like good knapping stone and shatters rather than mushes. Briquettes are lumps of nondescript black. (I hate briquettes; not good to cook over, terrible to forge with. I bet the junk in them makes some nasty smoke too.)

 

[Mike Ameling]

When you are using a fire in most any style of tent, you need either hot flames or coals. Most anything else will give you smoke in varying levels. Then it depends upon the amount of ... draft ... or air-flow within your tent.

The smoke flaps on a traditional tipi help control the wind going across your tipi, and how it might affect the smoke opening. They act a lot like the collar on your jacket. If you block the wind from blowing across or directly into the smoke opening, it will help the smoke inside to keep flowing out of your tent. If you don't block it, then the smoke will start backing up inside.

Having an "air tube" running along the ground from outside the tent all the way to right beside the fire helps. This brings fresh air directly to the fire - instead of having it come through vents or the opening near the ground and then have to travel through the rest of the tent just to get to the fire. That also cools down the air in general within the tent, and that slows down how fast the smoke rises up and out.

So, hot small fire generating little smoke, and keep the outside breeze/wind from interferring with the opening at the top of the tent for the smoke to get out. And try to get some outside air directly to the fire to help feed it. Some of that steel flexible automobile muffler/exhaust pipe works well.

Having a fire in a tent, or even just in front of a lean-to shelter, takes a bit of "tweaking" to cut down on the amount of smoke within your tent. The only wany to get rid of it is to use an enclosed stove with pipe going up and out the top for the smoke. It really does "clear the air" inside, but it's more gear to drag along.

Just my humble thoughts and observations to pass on - from several years camping with a traditional Indian tipi and soooo many lean-to shelters.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[sandbender]

Having an "air tube" running along the ground from outside the tent all the way to right beside the fire helps.

I like this idea, its so bxxxxdy obvious too

Thanks


:You_Rock_

 

[mark a.]

So do I! Genius. I reckon a bit of tumble-dryer vent tubing or similar should do the trick (although a non-melting one could well be preferable!)

 

[malcolmc]

I was always puzzled as to how native Americans were able to have open fires in tipis. I had the privilege of meeting a resident of the Welsh Tipi Village a few years ago and he explained how he did it; he said he was following the way the original tipis were made.

The trick was to have a double skin, the outer not quite reaching the ground, the inner on the ground and folded about 18 inches (0.5 m) inwards to form a sort of peripheral ground sheet but only going up to within 3 feet (1 m) of the apex. The way it worked was the warm air rising from the fire sucked in cold air through the gap between the outer and inner until it reached the top of the inner at which point it would fall forming a cool 'air curtain' around the rising warm air. As the incoming cool air fell it was heated by the column of warm air until it reached the ground where it would either turn outward from the fire to ventilate the occupied area of the tipi or inwards to support combustion. If this works, and I don’t see why it wouldn’t, it provides ventilation without cold drafts, quite a technological achievement in a tent. He did say it took quite a bit of trial and error to get the airflows to balance.

It strikes me as a very sophisticated and appropriate solution to surviving a central American winter.

Not sure how applicable this is to Tentipi set up but hope it helps.

 

[hanzo]

You could light up outside with a chimney and move your hot coals inside after. These are great!