*sigh*

awarner

Nomad
Apr 14, 2012
487
4
Southampton, Hampshire
The 1st Facebook scout group have been going crazy over giant hogweed for a few months now, tv a few years back had warnings about using the stalks as pea shooters etc.
The general public are so out of touch with nature its sad so I make sure my scouts get as much knowledge as they can.
 

tim_n

Full Member
Feb 8, 2010
1,730
130
Essex
I avoid the 1st Facebook site like the plague. I have enough politics in my life without escouts and facebook these days :)

Giant hogweek is a tremendous plant, I remember finding a load up in Norfolk whilst walking along a canal path, it was like something out of the day of the triffids. Completely blown away by it - I might have been a borrower under a field of cow parsley.
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
18
Scotland
Why aren't all plants poisonous? lindybeige ponders - interesting guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ClQXwkkH8A&list=PLEBE136C681CBDB21

Lindybeige is always worth a watch, my favourite YT poster.
On the hogweed front I've advocated for years that local councils waste a heap of money each year with their "hogweed destruction squads". Costs them a small fortune to try to eradicate what is really a beautiful plant. If you've ever walked through a grove of them it makes for a wonderful sight. And unfortunately the amount of kids who actually seem to be out playing in areas where it may grow seems tiny so the responce isn't proportional. Heck I live in the country and the local kids don't even touch the wild brambles and rasps that grow by the school as they're taught that all wild things aren't safe. (Was and still is a free feed as far as I'm minded).
I was taught to be wary of all umbrellafers as a kid and still 'am. Difficult to identify and some dangerous plants in there. But also some goodies.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
 

tim_n

Full Member
Feb 8, 2010
1,730
130
Essex
One of my scouts said "what are those pretty berries growing up out of the floor, are they safe to eat?"

Lords and Ladies... and no. Don't eat them.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,860
2,102
Mercia
~sigh~ indeed.

Just tell the idiots they are quite safe if they keep both feet on concrete.

Leave the green spaces for people with a brain. Simple.
 

mick91

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 13, 2015
2,064
8
Sunderland
What next? Start wiping out nettles because they sting you? Don't remove the plants, just educate people. And if curiosity gets the better of them and they snap up hogweed they'll certainly only do it once! Pain is by far the fastest teacher I've ever come across!
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
45
North Yorkshire, UK
Giant Hogweed is invasive, spreads rapidly and is very dangerous. Why on earth wouldn't you want it eradicating?

If you really object to the council 'wasting money', simply go and cut it down yourself.
 
Have we really become so disenfranchised with nature that we're shocked when there's plants that can kill growing in nature?

In a word - yes.

Back when I was growing up, lots of knowledge was imparted as to stuff which was poisonous because then you got sent out to play around it. Now in most cases parents do not even have the knowledge to impart if they wanted to bother. I taught forest fire cycles and tree identification using keys, etc. in elementary school and high school for decades - until it became necessary to teach to a curriculum of which that wasn't a part. So I wouldn't be too hard on kids.
 

baggins

Full Member
Apr 20, 2005
1,563
302
49
Coventry (and surveying trees uk wide)
there have been a rash of these shock stories about poisonous plants recently. the one that really made me laugh was on ITV news, saying how terrible hogweed (not giant hogweed mind) was, whist standing in a field of cow parsley. if you"re going to scare people and make a news story, at least get the facts right. the article posted above states that giant hogweed is the most poisonous plant in the UK, ok, so they really don't want to know about hemlock water dropwort then!
Sorry, rant over!
 

mick91

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 13, 2015
2,064
8
Sunderland
there have been a rash of these shock stories about poisonous plants recently. the one that really made me laugh was on ITV news, saying how terrible hogweed (not giant hogweed mind) was, whist standing in a field of cow parsley. if you"re going to scare people and make a news story, at least get the facts right. the article posted above states that giant hogweed is the most poisonous plant in the UK, ok, so they really don't want to know about hemlock water dropwort then!
Sorry, rant over!

Imagine if they ever look at fungi and come across olive deathcaps and destroying angels! They'll have us taking walks in HAZMAT suits!
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,338
1,664
Cumbria
But the sentiment behind these stories is kinda positive in that these people want to protect and perhaps inform if protection is not possible. Imagine this article being about trying to put pressure on the council to remove this plant from where people are passing , a shame the authorities/get people complaining directly for action. Or if that's still not working at least people reading this can learn something, perhaps pass it on, so preventing harm through contact.

I'm not for eradication of anything, I believe that if you something is harmful in nature it evolved for a reason and that we've also evolved enough to learn to avoid. I just think if one person sees this photo of the guy next to this plant, recognises it then their ignorance of it has been lifted. A good thing to educate right?

P.S. I admit to not knowing poisonous plants present in the UK but I feel I don't need to know. Anything in my garden, if I had one, would be known to me, if not I'd certainly not eat it or crush and rub it. If in doubt avoid. If in your garden then gloves make a good protection for handling stuff. There's quite a few garden plants that have defences which can cause wealds and reactions through contact with skin. I used to know a few after the village Bobby where I lived, a keen gardener, wrote a piece about plants to defend property in his column in the neighborhood watch newsletter. Plenty of thorns included but one had a toxin in the thorns which caused a painful, bright red welt if it scratched you that lasts weeks. The idea was the police would know to check out the usual scrotes for these obvious marks, thus giving them cause to search the person's property. Plus they hurt badly so you also know the guy is suffering.

That really surprised me since the copper was really advocating pain. I liked the idea. A few euphorbias around drainpipes or under windows to scratch the he'll out of burglars. Or a climber/rambler with major thornage trained along the top of fences or walls. Also keeps the cats out, although 6"nails along the top of the fence also works with all but the most stupid or persistent cats too.

One question, what is the most dangerous native plant? That's either most toxic or most likely to cause serious harm. Something that's truly toxic but very rare is unlikely to kill or harm but a common plant that's less poisonous may still cause more hospital visits thus being more dangerous. I'm just curious, but it is a digression do perhaps should be asked in its own thread if I get round to it.
 

decorum

Full Member
May 2, 2007
5,064
12
Warwickshire
One of my scouts said "what are those pretty berries growing up out of the floor, are they safe to eat?"

Good questions :approve: . Better they take an active interest in the plants (and animals) around them than unthinkingly blast them with a stick as they amble past and then complaining to disinterested (phone addicted) parent that a plant's just hurt them ... :rolleyes: :twak:


(Can you tell who got a tad miffed this afternoon? :eek: )
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
18
Scotland
Giant Hogweed is invasive, spreads rapidly and is very dangerous. Why on earth wouldn't you want it eradicating?

If you really object to the council 'wasting money', simply go and cut it down yourself.

But the point is I don't want it cut.down. Fair enough beside a playpark or school but in some out of the way spot just leave it be.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
 

baggins

Full Member
Apr 20, 2005
1,563
302
49
Coventry (and surveying trees uk wide)
Paul-b, as far as i'm aware, the 2 most dangerous plants in the UK and Europe are Hemlock Water Dropwort and Monkshood (Wolfsbane). but this is purely for toxicity, Giant Hogweed reacts with the skin to make it incredibly sensitive to the suns UV rays, i could go on and on. there are a host of plants out there that contain a variety of toxins but, when treat right and with respect have real benefits and medicinal uses and some are even edible.
If we start on Fungi, then we can open a whole other can of shroom shaped worms.
i am surprised that you wouldn't be interested in knowing about poisonous plants Paul, surely, if you spend a lot of time in the outdoors, knowing the things that can kill or at least seriously harm you would be important knowledge. Especially on this forum, where people are looking and practicing living and surviving in our environment, any knowledge that can be gleamed is surely another string to your bow. (not criticising, just curious).
 
But the point is I don't want it cut.down. Fair enough beside a playpark or school but in some out of the way spot just leave it be.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

I hate to be contentious but an invasive species which does have the potential to spread fast and get established is never a good thing.

I wrote the first page of many planned ones on poisonous plants with cicuta douglasii many years ago and provided many people with high resolution pictures from negative scans if that was needed. But I could never hate the stuff because it's native and was here for a lot longer than me. Similarly I could never hate Indian Hellebore because it's incredible to see a swamp meadow with what appear to be 6' high banana trees growing in it - and it belongs here. I have a really confused relationship with red elderberry because I really like the juiced berries and often think of making wine from the blossoms. The problem with the juice is that even if you do everything right, the 0.5% of the population which has a sensitivity to cyanic compounds is going to get hospitalized. I hate seeing a swamp area taken over by these ominous trees which never show even the tiniest insect nibble on a leaf - but it is pretty. I chop every tree near a trail where wood could be used for a roasting stick with horrible results. But it belongs here and will get shaded out and killed in proper time, not my time. I could go on and on but I'm sure everyone gets the picture.

I love some invasive plants like the tansy which came with Albertan fishermen. I even love the ragwort tansy which is quite nasty on the poisonous scale. They are very pretty yellow flowers along highways in the north and are going nowhere else - well here at least.

While not hating native plants even if they are really really nasty, and putting up with some pretty invasives which are soon to meet the full force of native plants - if I ever saw a giant hog-weed here I would cancel my holidays and go to live with it until I'd killed every last one. I would do that due to respect of the native plants and animals who can't do it themselves.

I think that this is a time to make serious choices. Is nature just here for you to wonder over, or are you here for it?
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
45
North Yorkshire, UK
Why cut it down?

1) It is invasive. It takes over areas, crowding out native species.
2) As a non-native, it doesn't provide 'habitat' for native fauna.
3) Giant Hogweed burns are really, really bad. I brushed against one, just touched my ankle. The internal bruising was so extensive it was visible on the other side of the joint and appear between my toes. Took nearly 2 years for the photo-sensitivity to go.
 

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