Shelter building

[Robson Valley]

Across western North America, Fist Nations winter villages normally consisted of pit houses. Essentially 20-30' in diameter and at least 6' into the ground. The spoil from the pit becomes the overburden on the log roof. Some were so sophisticated that they had a slate-lined duct for cold air intake for the central fire. I want to live in one for a month. October, I think.
https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com...tional-pit-house-unveiled-near-unbc-1.1347534

 

[Erbswurst]

In my opinion a square shape isn't sensible.
I currently live in a small construction trailer, that I fitted out after I lived for many years in a very little wooden garden house.
My construction trailer is great!

It's approximately 220cm wide and 350 long inside.

If I enter the door I have on the left the oven, behind it my shoes, in front of it wood, over it, 50 cm in front a hook to dry my boots, along that wall hooks for wardrobe, also to dry it, in the corner a small table with a chair , the table ends at the bed and works here as a night table, the bed is just as wide as an insulation mat and a box with my stuff inside, at the foot end is an open wardrobe case, just in front of the oven, here I also can dry my clothing like on the hooks that are over the table, over the bed and in the washing line that goes from the door to the table in the sealing. Between wardrobe case and door is a coat hook too and under it a hook for the brush to clean the room.

Apart from my box where I store in waterproof dry bags absolutely dry clothing and other stuff li jb e my bushcraft equipment in a rucksack, everything is made to dry clothing.
That's why nothing gets damp here.

The walls are insulated with only 5 cm Styropour, the roof isn't insulated, the pure metal.
In clothing and 3 seasons sleeping bag with that oven no problem until -15°C, colder it didn't get this winter.

I can see from my pillow my oven and the door, what is sensible.

The only difference to such a cave house is that I have a window over the table. Nice to have, but not necessary.
You can also put a candle or LED camping light onto the table and make a little window into the door if you want or into the roof.

This little room has just half the size of my garden house, but works far better, because it can be heated easier with my little oven.

Less is more.

 

[nitrambur]

That's the main reason on this project. And being underground means neds won't find it

One has to wonder what the neds are doing on private land?

 

[Herman30]

Not even in Finland would this be legal to build unless on own property and we have much looser rules than Britain.

 

[SaraR]

Im using the shape of the land while aiming for square, it would allow a person to stand comfortly and (being square) at least or about 3 metres. I don't know much about drainage, so would a waterproof sheet covering the whole shelter a d then some wouldn't work? If I made a collecting drainage it could provide some of my water

I meant draining water coming out of the bottom and sides of the dug out pit.


What are 'neds'?

 

[Kadushu]

Thanks any references or help are great

I've been trying to collect information on a project like this for reasons similar to yours. Seems there's loads of info on huge nuclear bunker builds but not so much on a more humble project. There's also the Anglo-Saxon "pit house" which is sunken but not fully underground. Might be an easier option?

 

[nigelp]

Neds - Chavs

 

[TLM]

In Lapland there is a traditional winter abode built usually slightly dug into well drained sandy ground. The load bearing structure is made of wood covered with birch bark covered with thick layer of bog peat. Properly done it was quite warm (in comparison to alternatives) and fairly long lasting (20-30 years). Can be done with reasonable effort and properly placed not so easy to see. The traditional name in Finnish is "kammi".

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

Across western North America, Fist Nations winter villages normally consisted of pit houses. Essentially 20-30' in diameter and at least 6' into the ground. The spoil from the pit becomes the overburden on the log roof. Some were so sophisticated that they had a slate-lined duct for cold air intake for the central fire. I want to live in one for a month. October, I think.
https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com...tional-pit-house-unveiled-near-unbc-1.1347534

Nice, that was interesting. I might even include that ladder method haha.

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

In Lapland there is a traditional winter abode built usually slightly dug into well drained sandy ground. The load bearing structure is made of wood covered with birch bark covered with thick layer of bog peat. Properly done it was quite warm (in comparison to alternatives) and fairly long lasting (20-30 years). Can be done with reasonable effort and properly placed not so easy to see. The traditional name in Finnish is "kammi".

Thanks I'll give it a look

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

I've been trying to collect information on a project like this for reasons similar to yours. Seems there's loads of info on huge nuclear bunker builds but not so much on a more humble project. There's also the Anglo-Saxon "pit house" which is sunken but not fully underground. Might be an easier option?

I know so much bunker stuff, maybe I'll make a channel on the more humble and solve the issue of shelter and homless/lacking funds haha

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

I meant draining water coming out of the bottom and sides of the dug out pit.


What are 'neds'?

Chaves or teenage irritance, and thanks I wasn't sure of this issue, would it go out and down the soil walls? If so I could use elder or something else as a gutter plus effortless water

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

In my opinion a square shape isn't sensible.
I currently live in a small construction trailer, that I fitted out after I lived for many years in a very little wooden garden house.
My construction trailer is great!

It's approximately 220cm wide and 350 long inside.

If I enter the door I have on the left the oven, behind it my shoes, in front of it wood, over it, 50 cm in front a hook to dry my boots, along that wall hooks for wardrobe, also to dry it, in the corner a small table with a chair , the table ends at the bed and works here as a night table, the bed is just as wide as an insulation mat and a box with my stuff inside, at the foot end is an open wardrobe case, just in front of the oven, here I also can dry my clothing like on the hooks that are over the table, over the bed and in the washing line that goes from the door to the table in the sealing. Between wardrobe case and door is a coat hook too and under it a hook for the brush to clean the room.

Apart from my box where I store in waterproof dry bags absolutely dry clothing and other stuff li jb e my bushcraft equipment in a rucksack, everything is made to dry clothing.
That's why nothing gets damp here.

The walls are insulated with only 5 cm Styropour, the roof isn't insulated, the pure metal.
In clothing and 3 seasons sleeping bag with that oven no problem until -15°C, colder it didn't get this winter.

I can see from my pillow my oven and the door, what is sensible.

The only difference to such a cave house is that I have a window over the table. Nice to have, but not necessary.
You can also put a candle or LED camping light onto the table and make a little window into the door if you want or into the roof.

This little room has just half the size of my garden house, but works far better, because it can be heated easier with my little oven.

Less is more.

Thanks, I think I'll go for minimal, the question is stairs or a ladder up more consealed

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

One has to wonder what the neds are doing on private land?

It's close too open fields with walking treks and no matter how manytimes police are phoned they won't stop

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

Where are you going to put the soil/substrate you dig out of the hole?
If the hole is in heavy clay type soil the volume will be up to 6 times the volume of the compressed soil when it comes out!
Is the hole/shelter on private land? Do you have permission to dig a massive hole and alter the natural environment?
How will animals be prevented from getting in or be able to get out?
If you dig a hole and cover it with plastic the sheet will get water on the middle and sag.
How high is the water table? If the hole is unable to drain it will fill with water or at the very least the bottom will.

Just some food for thought

I will be using the clay on other projects, and re utilise what I can hoping for the best beyond that part, plus ingredients in other things and yeah permission is there

 

[Erbswurst]

And why don't you simply buy a complete cheap garden house, set it up within a day, insulate it inside with a wall that's made of a mixture of clay and straw or another biological degradable insulation material that easily can be bought and build in as plates like rock wool and build a little but real house?

Or simply get a little used construction trailer and fit it out like I did it? That you can displace or sell later if you want and even get your invested money back and perhaps like this even payed for the invested time.

I also would think about about buying an old caravan or campervan.

With a campervan you have far more options as you can't only put it on private land or onto a touristic camping ground but also stand it somewhere next to a public swimming hall or minimum a public toilet, for example next to a grave yard. A water tap is good to have. There are also very cheap parkings that are reserved for campervans and fitted out with a basic infrastructure, somewhere more, somewhere less.

You also could fit out an old usual looking transporter, what would be the best for wild camping in urban surroundings, and the cheapest mobile option.
In the long run the gas becomes pretty expensive as you surely aren't allowed to build in a wood stove there, but you could rent a bread & breakfast room or just a youth hostel bed for the month when the temperature falls below the freezing point and avoid the costs like that.
Heating costs become expensive just below 0*C, and I guess that happens in Britain regularly only in January and February, isn't it?

The investment to fit out a transporter into a campervan can't be a fault, because should you get problems here you simply can put it somewhere else.
And like this you don't leave your belongings unobserved.
In that wood you can put in place made outdoor furnitures covered by such a cheap building site tarp that you can leave there, but if you drive to your job you have your other stuff with you.

You can spend the week more or less in town, in the street behind the grave yard or the public swimming hall next to your job and drive for the weekend to your wood. (To the job you go by bicycle.)

In Germany a regularly displaced campervan that looks like an old usual little lorry doesn't attract any interest of anybody. You get only problems if you stay in one place for long times.

That's why I would get such an old little lorry, for example a Renault Traffic transporter, without side windows that nobody can look in, and look for several good wild camping spots, that are more or less urban but a bit outside.
1.) Grave Yards
2.) Swimming halls
3.) Public toilets
4.) Camping van places, official
5.) Touristic camping grounds with washing machine
6.) Coin wash shops
7.) Such a cheap muscle man gym club with long opening times with toilet and showers
8.) Public sport areas with open public toilets.
9.) Little fast food restaurants with toilets, where I can regularely have a cheap coffee, become friends with the owner and use the toilets also to brush my teeth.
10.) A little harbour with such infrastructure where I can talk to the harbour captain.

And than I would rotate that places.

But if you stay on a small touristic camping ground all the year and even offer to help there a bit with lawn cutting, hedge trimming welcoming others or whatever that should also become very cheap!

 

[nigelp]

Put the camper in the hole?

 

[Erbswurst]

Did you serve in the tank force?

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

And why don't you simply buy a complete cheap garden house, set it up within a day, insulate it inside with a wall that's made of a mixture of clay and straw or another biological degradable insulation material that easily can be bought and build in as plates like rock wool and build a little but real house?

Or simply get a little used construction trailer and fit it out like I did it? That you can displace or sell later if you want and even get your invested money back and perhaps like this even payed for the invested time.

I also would think about about buying an old caravan or campervan.

With a campervan you have far more options as you can't only put it on private land or onto a touristic camping ground but also stand it somewhere next to a public swimming hall or minimum a public toilet, for example next to a grave yard. A water tap is good to have. There are also very cheap parkings that are reserved for campervans and fitted out with a basic infrastructure, somewhere more, somewhere less.

You also could fit out an old usual looking transporter, what would be the best for wild camping in urban surroundings, and the cheapest mobile option.
In the long run the gas becomes pretty expensive as you surely aren't allowed to build in a wood stove there, but you could rent a bread & breakfast room or just a youth hostel bed for the month when the temperature falls below the freezing point and avoid the costs like that.
Heating costs become expensive just below 0*C, and I guess that happens in Britain regularly only in January and February, isn't it?

The investment to fit out a transporter into a campervan can't be a fault, because should you get problems here you simply can put it somewhere else.
And like this you don't leave your belongings unobserved.
In that wood you can put in place made outdoor furnitures covered by such a cheap building site tarp that you can leave there, but if you drive to your job you have your other stuff with you.

You can spend the week more or less in town, in the street behind the grave yard or the public swimming hall next to your job and drive for the weekend to your wood. (To the job you go by bicycle.)

In Germany a regularly displaced campervan that looks like an old usual little lorry doesn't attract any interest of anybody. You get only problems if you stay in one place for long times.

That's why I would get such an old little lorry, for example a Renault Traffic transporter, without side windows that nobody can look in, and look for several good wild camping spots, that are more or less urban but a bit outside.
1.) Grave Yards
2.) Swimming halls
3.) Public toilets
4.) Camping van places, official
5.) Touristic camping grounds with washing machine
6.) Coin wash shops
7.) Such a cheap muscle man gym club with long opening times with toilet and showers
8.) Public sport areas with open public toilets.
9.) Little fast food restaurants with toilets, where I can regularely have a cheap coffee, become friends with the owner and use the toilets also to brush my teeth.
10.) A little harbour with such infrastructure where I can talk to the harbour captain.

And than I would rotate that places.

But if you stay on a small touristic camping ground all the year and even offer to help there a bit with lawn cutting, hedge trimming welcoming others or whatever that should also become very cheap!

I thought of some of that but I have no budget really and the land owner said as long as when the shelters done I can't see anything and walk on the ground bar a hatch or that plus with the walkways and neds it's got to be hidden, they destroy anything lol, made a wattle and it was made to fire wood in a field near by, at least it wasn't the best of handy work but still brutal lol

 

[Nathan-and-delvok]

Did you serve in the tank force?

Nah, psych nursing and a navy brat how come lol?