Self-sufficiency Day

[Mikey P]

I was chatting to my mate Phil the other day about some of the mushrooms just outside the fence at work. I had an idea what they were (not 100% but I think they were Shaggy Parasols) and he asked how I had a bit of knowledge. I mentioned that I was into that 'sort of stuff' and he told me about a really interesting little idea he and his missus had.

The other week, they decided that they would have a 'Self-sufficiency Day' where they would eat nothing except what they could catch/shoot, forage or grow. Luckily for him, they have a house in Cornwall with a bit of land (his wife works with horses) and so he shot a couple of rabbits, they picked some stuff from the garden and they foraged a few bits and pieces from the woods.

OK, it's not hardcore but what a great idea! It gives you a fun challenge and a taster of bushcraft - depending on how difficult you want to make it, you could restrict yourself to a certain area of land at a certain time of year. Would probably be a really good learning experience.

 

[torjusg]

A very good idea indeed. Do they want to make it a once a week, month or year event?

Even once a week shouldn't be too hard for most people. At least unless you live in the thick city.

 

[spamel]

What is the score with a rabbit diet though. I seem to remember that some folk in New Zealand way back in the day died from malnutrition even though they were eating plenty of rabbit. Don't get me wrong, I love a bit of "four legged chicken" as it's called in our house (the girls had rabbits and don't like to think of eating them, or so Mrs Spamel says!!) but if living off it full time would it really leave you malnourished?

Thinking about it, there is an awful lot of food to be had in the summer, but now we are coming to the leaner months, it may not be so easy to get a good supply of naturally growing food. It is amazing that man could do this with impunity thousands of years ago. I have only recently started getting into eating what I find around me, apart from the berries that we all picked as kids, and seashore food is always on the menu if I can get to it. I think bushcraft has opened me up to this, and that can't be a bad thing!!

A self sufficiency day with rabbit on the menu once a week wouldn't be too bad, a really good idea in fact. I like to bolster my rations with mushrooms, and the odd session picking cow berrys or black berrys in the warmer months is a good pudding for after tea!!

 

[Culicoidis]

What is the score with a rabbit diet though. I seem to remember that some folk in New Zealand way back in the day died from malnutrition even though they were eating plenty of rabbit. Don't get me wrong, I love a bit of "four legged chicken" as it's called in our house (the girls had rabbits and don't like to think of eating them, or so Mrs Spamel says!!) but if living off it full time would it really leave you malnourished?

Thinking about it, there is an awful lot of food to be had in the summer, but now we are coming to the leaner months, it may not be so easy to get a good supply of naturally growing food. It is amazing that man could do this with impunity thousands of years ago. I have only recently started getting into eating what I find around me, apart from the berries that we all picked as kids, and seashore food is always on the menu if I can get to it. I think bushcraft has opened me up to this, and that can't be a bad thing!!

A self sufficiency day with rabbit on the menu once a week wouldn't be too bad, a really good idea in fact. I like to bolster my rations with mushrooms, and the odd session picking cow berrys or black berrys in the warmer months is a good pudding for after tea!!

Rabbit malnutrition occurs if you are eating nothing but rabbit meat. It was documented amongst the trappers and mountain men in the US.
Very simly, rabbit meat is deficient in some vitamins that are found in fats, so you exhaust your supply the more you consume rabbit. This can be avoided if you eat the organ meat, liver, kidney, heart etc. and take in green vegetables. A perhaps over simplified explanation but the key is to vary your diet.

 

[Stuart]

A small section of a much larger article entitled "the reality of food in the Bush" (published in the BushcraftUK magazine 'Bushcraft' in two parts, issues 1 and 2) which covers all aspects nutrition in the bush including ‘rabbit starvation’ aka ‘rabbit posioning’:

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Many wild animals, especially small mammals have so little body fat that reliance solely on their meat for sustenance results in 'Rabbit starvation', a potentially fatal condition brought about by consuming a diet consisting almost entirely of protein. The most common historical example has been those attempting to rely entirely on rabbit meat.

Rabbits are one of the easiest animals to trap and it is easy for someone who is catching large numbers of rabbits to assume that they are providing themselves with all the calories their body requires; but this is not the case. A person who eats nothing but rabbit meat will begin to experience headaches, fatigue, and discomfort. If they continue to consume nothing but rabbit their stomachs become distended and after a week they develop diarrhea, but no matter how much they eat they will be unable to satisfy their hunger, eventually they appear to starve to death even whilst continuing to consume large quantities of rabbit meat.

This happens because rabbits have very little body fat, so the calories provided by their meat are almost entirely in the form of protein. For protein amino acids to be used as fuel they have to be converted into glucose by the liver in a process called gluconeogenesis, this metabolic process requires a large amount of energy in the form of adenosinetriphosphate (ATP). Six ATP molecules are used to convert the amino acids to glucose and a further four are required to convert the harmful Ammonia which is produced as a by product, into urea. The liver relies solely on aerobic metabolism to replace the ATP molecules that have been consumed.

The liver obtains around 80% of its oxygen from the portal vein which because of its venous nature has a low oxygen partial pressure; this scarcity of oxygen limits production of ATP, thus limiting the production of glucose from amino acids. By determining the maximal rate of urea synthesis and therefore the point at which glucose production ceases, it has been calculated that the maximum capacity of the liver to produce glucose from amino acids in an 80kg individual is restricted to approximately 250 grams a day (1000cal), not nearly enough to support an active person.

However this limitation of available calories is not sole cause of the symptoms described in those who have suffered and ultimately died from a protein exclusive diet, the true cause of the deaths resulting from this condition is far more insidious!

The liver begins the process of turning protein amino acids into glucose by removing the A-amino group made up of nitrogen molecules (ammonia) from the amino acids so that the remaining carbon skeleton can be utilized, this ammonia is highly toxic so under normal circumstances the ammonia is immediately converted into urea which can be safely removed by the kidneys. however if the livers ATP supply is exhausted due to a lack of available oxygen it cannot convert the toxic ammonia into urea and is forced instead to release the ammonia into the bloodstream.

The phenomenon of rabbit poisoning can now be explained as follows, an 80 kg person subsisting exclusively on protein can only provide their body with a maximum of 1,000 calories a day, because their liver is only capable of producing 250 grams of glucose from protein via gluconeogenesis regardless of how much protein they consume. Because of this lack of calories the individual is unable to satisfy their hunger through protein alone, but in a desperate attempt to ease their hunger with the only food source available to them they continue to consume protein unaware that the liver, unable to complete its breakdown of the amino acids into glucose due to a lack of oxygen is releasing highly toxic ammonia into the blood and the more protein they consume beyond the initial 250grams per day the more ammonia is building up in their blood where it damages the central nervous system.

This damage manifests itself progressively as irritability, headaches, vomiting, somnolence, coma, and finally death as a result of cerebral edema.

In summary, no matter how much protein you consume if you only eat protein you can only provide yourself with a maximum of 1,000 calories a day, the remaining calories must be provided in the form of fats and/or carbohydrates. If you attempt to consume more than 250 grams of protein a day in a diet consisting exclusively of protein you are simply poisoning yourself with ammonia and hastening your demise. - copyright 2006 Stuart P. Goring

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This explanation is based on my own research and is as far as I am aware is the first complete and feasible explanation for death via the exclusive consummation of protein.

 

[Culicoidis]

Stuart, I would love to know your research sources. I was unaware of a max rate for gluconeogenesis in humans, not my area of speciality, I shall have to question some of my medic and nutritionist friends.
Thanks for the starting point.

 

[spamel]

I read that before in the mag actually, but I'd forgot all about it Sorry!!!

One thing though, Steve Callaghan did over 70 days in his life raft on a fish only diet. Surely this is a protein only diet, but he didn't die. Is this because he didn't eat the whole fish in one go, or did eating the organs of the fish give him other vitamins and minerals essential to his diet? I know he did lose a large percentage of his body weight and had all sorts of health problems for a while afterwards, but he was in really good shape considering he had been at sea staring death in the face for over two months!

 

[Stuart]

Stuart, I would love to know your research sources. I was unaware of a max rate for gluconeogenesis in humans, not my area of speciality, I shall have to question some of my medic and nutritionist friends.
Thanks for the starting point.

most of my reasearch time was spend pouring over dusty old medical journels and mind numbingly boring academic papers.

the source of the figures for the maximal rate of Urea Excretion came from a paper called:

Maximal rates of Excretion and synthesis of urea in normal and cirrhotic subjects.
Daniel Rudman, Thomas J, DiFulco, John T. Galambos, Robert B Smith, Atef A. Salam and W. dean Warren department of medicine and surgery.
Emory university school of medicine and the clinical research facility, Emory university hospital.

 

[chrisanson]

I was chatting to my mate Phil the other day about some of the mushrooms just outside the fence at work. I had an idea what they were (not 100% but I think they were Shaggy Parasols) and he asked how I had a bit of knowledge. I mentioned that I was into that 'sort of stuff' and he told me about a really interesting little idea he and his missus had.

The other week, they decided that they would have a 'Self-sufficiency Day' where they would eat nothing except what they could catch/shoot, forage or grow. Luckily for him, they have a house in Cornwall with a bit of land (his wife works with horses) and so he shot a couple of rabbits, they picked some stuff from the garden and they foraged a few bits and pieces from the woods.

OK, it's not hardcore but what a great idea! It gives you a fun challenge and a taster of bushcraft - depending on how difficult you want to make it, you could restrict yourself to a certain area of land at a certain time of year. Would probably be a really good learning experience.

I think a 'Self-sufficiency Day' is a very good idea . I live in quit a built up area and am trying to get an allotment, something I am sure some people on here have already. One day every so often living of your own produce would be something of a lesson for many of us. In a similar vain I like to think of myself as quit 'Self-sufficient’ in many other ways and not just feeding myself/family.
Any other idea’s about the “good life” way of doing things??
Chris

 

[Mikey P]

A very good idea indeed. Do they want to make it a once a week, month or year event?

I'm not sure - perhaps once a lifetime! He didn't say. I suspect no more than 3 or 4 times a year though. I might challenge him to a day each season...

 

[riddleofsteel]

We try to have a "bushy" week end or day at least 3 times a year. Lately it is more like once a month. I am in the process of training my son. This also allows you to be more familar with the resources available during the different seasons. Fall and early winter is easy for us as we can legally hunt during those times deer, rodents, birds are easy pickings and great sources of proteins and fats. Fall in our country is also rich in nuts and seeds that are rich sources of carbs.
In the summer plant materials and early berries suppliment fish, crays and frogs. Snakes are also out in summer here but we leave them alone unless we are really hungry.
Spring is a lean time here as most of the plant sources have not come in and the animals have consumed most of the seeds and nuts. In olden times spring starvation was common in late winter and early spring. We really enjoy fresh wild greens like cressy greens, polk salad and plantian when they start growing. Some stream foods like crays and fish are available as well.

 

[torjusg]

I read that before in the mag actually, but I'd forgot all about it Sorry!!!

One thing though, Steve Callaghan did over 70 days in his life raft on a fish only diet. Surely this is a protein only diet, but he didn't die. Is this because he didn't eat the whole fish in one go, or did eating the organs of the fish give him other vitamins and minerals essential to his diet? I know he did lose a large percentage of his body weight and had all sorts of health problems for a while afterwards, but he was in really good shape considering he had been at sea staring death in the face for over two months!

To my knowledge, surviving on fish only is very possible, provided that there is sufficiently with fat on the fish. It is however essential to eat all the organs and preferably everything raw. There should be no difficulties experienced from such a diet.