Primus Etapower MF kit - read this before buying...

[Andy BB]

As they are shiny and appear to be very efficient, I was of course interested in the Etapower pans and stove sets, and have been doing a bit of background reading on them.

The MF (Multifuel) sets currently being advertised on ebay etc have in fact been discontinued as 2012 models, and the 2013 model - which has some significant changes - is not yet available to buy. However, when it is, it looks quite interesting.

First of all, it won't be a complete set, but rather will be an upgrade to the new 2013 EF kit (the gas canister one, which you can buy now, but make sure you get the 2013 model, not the old 2012 version - differences detailed in following narrative). It will be a slightly smaller - a 1.8 litre pot instead of a 2.1 litre pot, and with a plastic lid rather than a metal frying pan/lid as with the 2012 model. So far, not so good - smaller pot and no frying pan. THere are also some changes to the windshield, pan base and lining of the pan, allegedly making the setup even more efficient than before.

However, it appears that the burner in the 2013 EF kit is NOT just for canister gas. THe upgrade to the 2013 EF kit to bring it to the multifuel standard appears to be an Ergo pump and liquid fuel bottle, additional jets for white gas and kerosene, and some prickers. The stove in its current state would therefore appear to be a multifuel stove already, but without the relevant jets or pump or fuel bottle. So, if you already have a spare pump and fuel bottle (or buy some Chinese clones off ebay for peanuts) - and a couple of jets which cost a couple of quid each - you can convert the 2013 Primus Etapower EF to a MF now....

Of course, I could be completely wrong, and caveat emptor etc etc. But thats how it appears to me at the moment.....

 

[petrochemicals]

dear andy,

you always have been able to use an ergopump on all primus easyfuel stoves with a preheater tube, just as long as you preheat the stove somehow.

Primus "ef mf vf"

easy fuel - as gas to begin with with a lindal valve screw attachment. You do not get things like different nipples /preheating capable dishes with the stove

varifuel - for liquid fuels exept gas as the pump attachment is not lindal thread, with varipump connector

multifuel - all fuels but with the lindal threaded ergopump and preheating capability.

As for this years pans, they look sensible with the inbuilt windshield like a MSR reactor pot
plastic lids are more efficient , and the cerramic coating looks proffesional, like Cerramicor of T V shopping

pete

 

[Andy BB]

So are you saying that you can just connect a fuel pump (and bottle) to the 2012 EF stove and it'll work with liquid fuels as long as you do a bit of pre-heating? (and assuming there's a pre-heat "bowl" already there?)

Cool - didn't know that - thanks! I'd got the impression they'd made some alterations to the stove/burner itself to make it a genuine multi-fuel burner.

Not convinced by the benefits of a plastic lid rather than a lid that doubles as a frying pan though, or the smaller-size pan - smacks a bit of saving costs (ie price rise in all but name!). But if you're right, looks like you can use the 2012 EF set as a liquid fuel stove anyway just by adding the pump etc.

 

[petrochemicals]

when I had an ergopump I ran parraffin through a primus spider ! Essentially they're all the same stove, (eta pack lite, eta power, spider) they just have different nipples, and bits. They did an eta power mf and vf 2012.

I know what your saying about the frying pan, it is good to have one, but you can fry an egg in the bottom of the saucepan, or take a seperate one.

The smaller size is to compensate for the windshield around the heat exchanger i suppose. And I really like the ceramic non stick idea.

But, that saidI would personally but the eta packlite pan for the slightly bigger size, like you say.

 

[rik_uk3]

You can run paraffin through a Coleman lantern if you preheat it enough.

Watch the Omni pumps there are the older kind and the Ergo.

Some of the cheap Chinese 'Booster' type stoves are sold as gas only (no pump) and multi fuel (with pump).

 

[Andy BB]

Hang on a bit. Lets get back to basics here for a minute, as I confuse easily!

Canister gas stoves (butane/propane etc) don't need any pre-heat as the fuel is already in vapour form. Similarly, they don't need to vapourise the fuel once the stove is running before it reaches the burner, because it is already a vapour. Similarly, canister gas stoves don't necessarily need or have removable jets, as they can be fitted with one suitable for canister gas in the first place.

However, a liquid fuel stove WILL need replaceable jets as different fuels need different size jets - the thicker the fuel, the smaller the jet, all else being equal. Which is why the Omnifuel, for example, has three interchangeable jets to cope with everything from canister gas to diesel, via white gas and kerosene. It also needs some method of pre-heating the fuel before firing up, and some means of keeping the fuel vapourised once burning - normally by running a generator through or close to the flame before it reaches the jet. All of these multifuel (MF) requirements add weight and complexity to the simple canister gas burner. Unless you are specifically designing a burner to be a MF, you'd be mad to use a MF burner in a canister gas stove.

If I remember correctly, there were some real dogs produced - eg the original Gravity from Primus - which appeared to be a really bad attempt at a MF burner on the cheap, possibly using an existing canister gas burner as a starting point. It needed a major redesign into the Gravity 2 before it worked properly as a MF.

So - are we saying that the now-discontinued 2012 Etapower EF (a canister-gas only stove) actually had a fully functional MF burner in it, just missing the fuel pump and relevant jets for white gas and paraffin? (Oh, and probably a different fuel line, as I don't think the 2012 EF had a lindal connector).

 

[petrochemicals]

as you say, Primus have been through this before. But the eta power mf 2012 and the eta power ef 2012 were the same burner minus a preheater. Both liquid feed with the same design.

Look at primus spider and primus lander , very slight differences in the preheater pan. The liquid feed burners may be a little less efficient than vapour fed, but its the best way found so far to compensate for pressure drop in cannisters.

The different nossles are firstly, for asperated stoves to ensure a proper fuel air mix, and secondly with the omnifuel, to ensure good pre heating. one reason that the omni will not burn alcohol is that it doesn't work with the omni's preheater(alcohol burns too cold ,so i was told), but the fuel air mix doesnt factor as there's enough air with the burner design. Thirdly they use different nossles in the omni to limit the fuel volume as per ml diesil has more energy than propane, but it is also heavier, so you burn more grams than with white gas in the same size nossle !

And the reason you need all the complexity with a multifuel burner is the pump to pressurise etc and to clean it. Liquid Propane Cars burn completley cleanly with no blocking, just like stoves. You can take a wisperlite int'l and just use it on its own to burn gas, without pump or blocking.
Do you like the new pans ?

 

[petrochemicals]

have been into cotswold today, they have the eta 1 litre pot there in the flesh, the non stick is spectacular. Only thing is is the 1 litre pan is soooo small it's jetboil size, and you could not cook a meal in it really, nor fry bacon, a but of a toy pan, the most you could cook is pasta. Hopefully they get the larger ones in soon !

 

[Andy BB]

Good news! I'm expecting my new Etapower EF (1.8litre) system from the US shortly, and as I've got a compatible pump and bottle, will be able to try it out with liquid fuels. Glad the new non-stick looks good! Would still have preferred a frying pan lid to just the lid, but can probably rustle up a similar-sized non-stick frying pan that'll work with it.

Its true that the cylinder gas is probably the easiest - and certainly the cleanest - fuel to use with the set in most temps, but for an extended trip into seriously sub-zero conditions, a liquid fuel stove makes more sense, particularly is you're melting snow for water. And thats probably what I intend to do in future, particularly as most water filters tend to suffer major failure if water freezes in them!

And even if it didn't make sense, there's something about liquid-fuel stoves that makes them more fun to play with. Canister gas is a bit........vanilla..... Like driving an automatic car, or a hard-top compared to a soft-top car, or a saloon to a sports-car - gets the job done with no fuss, but not as much fun!

 

[petrochemicals]

I must say though Andy, all stoves with the preheater tube and the asperator head are inherantly less adept at normal liquid fuel burning than a stove like the omnifuel heating method.
At somepoint between being heated in a preheater tube the fuel exits the flame and is mixed with air, and the colder the air the more chance of a preheat failure. You don't get that with an omni type, that's why they're considered bomb proof for all weathers, and the eta power type stove is sent with recomendations for only petrol, and diesil in an emergency.

I do like the idea of liquid fuel, especially parraffin, but they're just too much faff if your on the move.

 

[rik_uk3]

Never noticed a problem with liquid fuels and preheater tube stoves to be honest. Using paraffin on the move will add a couple of minutes to match to cook time but naptha is pretty much instant, why not use that 'on the move' ?

 

[petrochemicals]

Well on the move, the whole thing becomes cumbersome and finnicky, not like gas. Bear in mind this is coming from who boils the equivalent of 8 litres of water a day, and sets it up 4 to 5 times. Breakfast , elevenses, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner.
I suppose the obvious answer is not to use it.

 

[rik_uk3]

8L ? Are you group cooking ?

I've been using ETA pots for a couple of years now, great bits of kit and have found the one used most is the biggest, the 2.9l. The 1l is really just like a Jetboil, its for brews or heating retort pouch meals but handy for an ultra light type camper I suppose. The finish on the pots is very good and I've found them very resistive to scratching.

These Phoenix pots are pretty good to, well made, good finish to them, I did have a couple but the daughter 'borrowed' them which means I need to get myself more lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120713429084?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

With these 'make an offer' auctions I've found they will usually take an offer @20% below BIN price so if any of you lot are after one offer £16. To be honest the BIN price alone represents great value.

 

[Andy BB]

For practicality purposes on a relatively short trip in non-Arctic conditions, then gas is probably the all-round easiest and simplest to use. (although not as much "fun" for us stovies!)

However, in serious sub-zero conditions,particularly if you're out for a week or more, liquid fuel rules (particularly if wood is not easy to gather)

Although, saying that - the best stove I've got for melting snow is the Vital woodstove with blown-air induction - 20,000btu apparently (about 6KW)! Was filling my 4litre Trangia pot with snow, and it was melting it as fast as I could shovel!

 

[rik_uk3]

You need one of these next Andy

[video=youtube;GC077RQStbo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC077RQStbo[/video]

Or
http://www.gisurplus.co.uk/shop/pro...tchen-burner/d8ea02650f16acff343f4bef7e098ff8

 

[bilmo-p5]

+1 for petrol, especially in an Omni.