Plug & Play Solar

[slowworm]

Maybe a move away from a National Grid is the answer in some places? But the implications of that would be..... interesting!

I'd be very interested if anyone knows of any schemes to move away from the grid. Our house is at an end of a run and all the wiring needs to be upgraded and other bits done. I guess it will go through the DNO's books as several thousands of pounds of work and they've already spent thousands trimming the trees back from the line over the years. I did ask them when I bought the house if there was any funding to help us be self sufficient and leave the grid but I got rather a blank look.

If anyone is curious of their power supply we've got a cheap energy monitor from Lidl that is accurate and it works well. It's an eye opener seeing your voltage fluctuate, especially on a very sunny day but with the odd bit of thick cloud.

 

[TeeDee]

Part of my job is related to projects involving Air source heat pumps and ground source heat pumps - I've dealt with quite a few customers whom have been living off grid -not by a huge distance from the closest utilities 30/40m - and the cost they have been provided for linking into has been well in excess ( double , sometime triple ) of the cost of a full Solar array and battery back up that will cover their full requirements.

Makes one think.

 

[Stew]

I’m not sure the benefit of going totally off grid is there. Ok so you’ll be stuck with a standing charge but that would be minor versus the pain and cost of ever having to reconnect.

 

[slowworm]

I’m not sure the benefit of going totally off grid is there. Ok so you’ll be stuck with a standing charge but that would be minor versus the pain and cost of ever having to reconnect.

That's my conclusion. Although I think we'll need to invest in something to sort out the poor grid power supply we get. As it is I doubt we could charge an EV for examp!e.

Our main concern at the moment is the phone line, it's been so poor we've sorted out other options and don't need the phone line. However, if we stopped using it and ever needed to start again I could see a huge reconnection bill.

 

[Stew]

That's my conclusion. Although I think we'll need to invest in something to sort out the poor grid power supply we get. As it is I doubt we could charge an EV for examp!e.

Can you essentially go off grid but just leave the poor grid connection in place?

 

[GeraldTheBonsai]

Can you essentially go off grid but just leave the poor grid connection in place?

This is the route I am going down - its a sort of hybrid solution.

Without a substantial investment, I know I can't power things like the electric shower - I need the grid for that. Likewise the immersion heater. However I can power the boiler and pumps (in theory) from the battery banks and solar I have. As such, am thinking of junking the electric shower and going over to a hot water shower.

Our major high current electrical needs are in the kitchen. The washing machine takes too much power to be powered by my rig, but things like the fridge & freezer I can run from power banks, and these can be recharged wither by solar or from the generator. So I've reduced / removed my dependancy on the grid for the kitchen.

Likewise around the rest of the house. Non grid lighting is taken care of, as is recharging of devices. My assumption is that if the grid went down, it would take comms with it, so I don't really have to worry about the router/wifi etc, but none the less I can still power them.

It's not an elegant solution but after going through the process, its made me realise exactly where I have a dependancy on being on-grid, and its only in a few places. So with a bit of work I am hoping to end as being mainly off-grid, with a bit of on-grid (that in a pinch I can live without).

 

[slowworm]

Can you essentially go off grid but just leave the poor grid connection in place?

Yes but then at a huge cost to ourselves. If we keep the grid connection then I'll chase the DNO to sort out the problems.

Our main problem is getting the time at the moment to sort everything out, one job depends on another etc. The power lines come up the side of our property and there's trees that ideally need to be cleared first as they need taking out. They are too far away from the lines for the DNO to sort but too close to be done without the power going off for several houses and too many to do in one or two days...

The meter also needs to be moved, overhead cable to house buried, hole house rewire done etc. That's why I find a solar setup appealing, although it may just be limited to something that'll keep the house ticking over for a few weeks while the power is turned off to sort everything else.

 

[Stew]

Yes but then at a huge cost to ourselves. If we keep the grid connection then I'll chase the DNO to sort out the problems.

Our main problem is getting the time at the moment to sort everything out, one job depends on another etc. The power lines come up the side of our property and there's trees that ideally need to be cleared first as they need taking out. They are too far away from the lines for the DNO to sort but too close to be done without the power going off for several houses and too many to do in one or two days...

The meter also needs to be moved, overhead cable to house buried, hole house rewire done etc. That's why I find a solar setup appealing, although it may just be limited to something that'll keep the house ticking over for a few weeks while the power is turned off to sort everything else.

Yes.

I would expect any solar set-up to cost to then pay back over time.

My electricity supply is fine but I still want to move away / reduce what I'm paying to an electricity company.

 

[GeraldTheBonsai]

Yes but then at a huge cost to ourselves. If we keep the grid connection then I'll chase the DNO to sort out the problems.

Our main problem is getting the time at the moment to sort everything out, one job depends on another etc. The power lines come up the side of our property and there's trees that ideally need to be cleared first as they need taking out. They are too far away from the lines for the DNO to sort but too close to be done without the power going off for several houses and too many to do in one or two days...

The meter also needs to be moved, overhead cable to house buried, hole house rewire done etc. That's why I find a solar setup appealing, although it may just be limited to something that'll keep the house ticking over for a few weeks while the power is turned off to sort everything else.

The DNO is under a legal obligation to fix problems on their network, especially if it impacts multiple properties. If you are seeing voltage fluctuations (outside of 216V to 253V) or frequency fluctuation (50Hx +-1%) they you can point this out to them. At the very least they can place a data logger on the line to investigate.

 

[slowworm]

I would expect any solar set-up to cost to then pay back over time.

My electricity supply is fine but I still want to move away / reduce what I'm paying to an electricity company.

I've not really looked if it would save money, resilience would be the main driver. We don't use much electricity in the summer and in the winter we'd get less generated.

Getting an EV would make solar more appealing.

 

[slowworm]

The DNO is under a legal obligation to fix problems on their network, especially if it impacts multiple properties. If you are seeing voltage fluctuations (outside of 216V to 253V) or frequency fluctuation (50Hx +-1%) they you can point this out to them. At the very least they can place a data logger on the line to investigate.

I know, thanks. DNO have been good, fitted monitor, agree power goes out of legal range etc.

But because they may do work for free when they improve the supply wiring I've not got round to chase them as I need to do some things first.

 

[66jj99]

Indeed.

What makes the grid stable and resilient is having large heavy spinning mass generators, they provide inertia and also help balance the "reactive power" due to how the electromagnetic fields of traditional spinning turbine generators can be managed

Whereas solar is "grid following" and can also cause fluctuations as it can switch on/off rapidly due to things like clouds passing. Wind turbines similarly are grid following, the output is rectified then put through an inverter before going to the grid to ensure the frequency is stable and consistent.

An in-depth discussion of how this all works is here: https://watt-logic.com/2025/07/16/voltage-inertia-and-the-iberian-blackout-part-1-the-theory/ and https://watt-logic.com/2025/07/16/v...solar-inverter-crashed-the-spanish-grid12088/ plus a summary here: https://watt-logic.com/2026/06/16/maintaining-grid-stability-in-a-wind-and-solar-world/

The "Electric Brit" (a Grid engineer with a you-tube channel) also does a good explanation here:

and

There is a place for renewables- IMO it's best used in smaller-scale off-grid with local batteries and user management. The large scale grid needs to be synchronised and balanced, and that is much more of a challenge as the proportion of power feeds that are not large spinning masses grows. (This is all down to the laws of physics not some lack of desire, something that seems to pass straight by the politicians).

There is some movement to build grid-forming inverters (still relatively rare) and to install "flywheels" (basically a generator without the turbine driving it) but this costs a LOT and it's early days. The costs of grid formation/resilience is not being carried by renewables- which is why they look so cheap (even before we get to the need for alternative power sources on calm nights).

Note: I am not anti-renewables, rather I believe there should be an honest national conversation about the best ways of using them and the real costs associated with renewables on a grid-level scale if the public want to retain a national grid providing non-intermittent supply at the user level. Maybe a move away from a National Grid is the answer in some places? But the implications of that would be..... interesting!

GC

TIL !

 

[GeraldTheBonsai]

I know, thanks. DNO have been good, fitted monitor, agree power goes out of legal range etc.

But because they may do work for free when they improve the supply wiring I've not got round to chase them as I need to do some things first.

ah sorry, got you.

 

[GreyCat]

I've not really looked if it would save money, resilience would be the main driver. We don't use much electricity in the summer and in the winter we'd get less generated.

Getting an EV would make solar more appealing.

Hmmm, resilience is maybe a different calculus as you then want it when the grid falls over in a power outage (whatever the cause). However plug-in solar must stop feeding in power at that point.....

When I had the new place fully re-wired during the renovation, I had a proper (manual) change-over switch and generator connection put in. Pretty common in this neck of the woods and allows the house to be powered from a gennie- or a big battery-inverter for that matter- after switching off the mains incoming supply. It is a basic manual switch however, and you can get more sophisticated systems..... depends on how much you want to pay and they do often have a dip as they switch over. If it's more than a simple manual changeover-gennie then I guess you need to be using it all the time to make the investment worthwhile.

Our resilience is based around a couple of power stations (instant power if the lights go off) plus a gennie that can be plugged in at house level if the power is likely to be off for a while e.g. after a big storm or a tractor taking out the local pole-transformer which supplies our house.

I suppose you could have 2 sets of house wiring- some circuits on a local power system and some (the big appliances like washing machine) on the mains.

GC

 

[slowworm]

Hmmm, resilience is maybe a different calculus as you then want it when the grid falls over in a power outage (whatever the cause). However plug-in solar must stop feeding in power at that point.....

I do have a change over switch but I'm more likely to put a battery and any generation on separate circuits. But we tend to lose power during storms in winter so solar wouldn't help anyway. A decent capacity battery would be the first thing to sort.

Going back to the plug in panels, a quick google suggests they could pay for themselves in a couple of years. As we have land for a decent number of normal panels I should look into the costs of getting a decent setup and selling the power back to the grid, subject to our supply being upgraded to cope.

 

[Stew]

There is no real big set up plan with the plug-ins. It's simple and low level stuff not an export plan. A plug in is 800W so unless you're going to get a number of plug-ins then your generation will be quite low.

Realistically if export to make money is your driver, I wouldn't recommend it these days. That golden age of Feed in tariffs is gone.

 

[slowworm]

There is no real big set up plan with the plug-ins. It's simple and low level stuff not an export plan. A plug in is 800W so unless you're going to get a number of plug-ins then your generation will be quite low.

Sorry, I'm confusing things. Looking at the return you might get on a plug in panel has encouraged me to look at the costs of a full setup (not a simple plug in).

I've never been a fan of the FIT but panels must be getting cheaper and as electricity seems to be getting more expensive there should be a good income from a decent setup these days?

 

[Stew]

I dot think anyone these days thinks there’s a good income from solar. I could be wrong.

The payback rate is likely half what you would buy at, if that.

Ball park idea of payback being 6 - 10 years if you’re using all the electric. If you’re generating half the value by exporting it out then clearly your payback time will go up.

It’s why so many invest in batteries to use out of sunlight hours - of course then ups your investment costs.

I do know some that utilise cheap night electric to charge batteries for day time use. No solar involved!