Plastic free camping

[Toddy]

Forty years ago we found the end of a trawl net on the beach. We bagged it up and brought it home to use in the garden. I pinned it up onto the fence and used it to grow climbers, etc.,

We stripped off the fence last month, and that old trawl net, made of plastic, is still absolutely sound. I've cleaned it up and I'm going to use it again.

The scary thing is that it's a bit of waste fishing net and there must be millions of miles of it in the oceans

 

[TLM]

Cotton can be recycled, fairly easily at that. Reconstituted cellulose fibers is a well known technology, several options available. We could replace grown cotton possibly within a few years with ReCe fibers made from other cellulose sources if necessary. As far as I understand it would be a great move for nature but there would be consequences, not all of which are well known but mostly positive.

Hemp was in common use some centuries ago, some years ago a archaeology student studied fabrics at the National Museum of Finland and found out that about half of the fabrics thought to be linen were actually hemp.

There are some bureaucratic problems with hemp though, some years ago a big department store in Estonia bought a batch of cheap hemp bags from Pakistan. So far so good. When Finns visiting came back home the Custom's drug sniffers went wild and had to be taken off work. Apparently the hemp used was not one of the THC deficient cultivars.

 

[Laurentius]

Thing is if you’re going away from plastics for environmental reasons, cotton isn’t really an environmentally friendly product.

This is true, it uses a lot of water in the production. The problem really is not the production but the population, we use too much water. I do think that products that you grow are better than products that come from oil and coal though, they may not be perfect but they have a better sustainability model. Maybe I should make all my clothes out of birch bark and nettle fibre, or go naked.

 

[TLM]

birch bark and nettle fibre

Shoes made from birch bark can still be bought and Germany has long history using nettle for clothes.

 

[Pattree]

We could, I suppose, save up and buy clothes (and camping kit) made from fibres grown in our own countries, woven and manufactured by local artisans. It’s even possible that we could leave such clothes to our descendants. I cannot imagine the mass poverty and the hunger riots in the middle and far east. It may not be right but these people’s lives depend upon Western markets. This thing cannot be turned around quickly. I’m not entirely sure that it can be turned round at all.

Even stopping one use plastic packaging cannot just be done overnight. There are long term contracts between oil companies, petrochemical industries, extruders and plastic stockholders. All these institutions employ vast numbers of people.

But
We can try. Pissing against the wind will slow it down if enough of us do it but it’s not comfortable.

 

[Woody girl]

What about linnen instead of cotton? It used to be more common than today, after all we talk about a linnen cupboard rather than a cotton cupboard.
Yes it's expensive, but then it always was, most people wore linnen before the slave trade enabled mass production of cheap cotton, and it became the product of choice,
Yes it's very hard to get rid of plastics in our lives. I did a room audit in my bedroom of plastics for curiosities sake, and there was so much that I'd not realy thought about, from bedside clock to net curtains, my inhalers,bedside torch, the air vent cover, light switches, and many other everyday items.
And now we are shocked to learn there is plastic in the water we drink and even in the antarctic.
we must look at what we are buying and start to buy less plastic, ask for less plastic items, and reduce our mind bendingly suicidal reliance on the stuff. I even find myself so indoctrinated into plastic consumption, I buy it without thinking. Shampoo and talc bottles, toothpaste tubes and brushes, washing up scrubbies.
I watched a yt video last night by careena alexis who also did a plastic free camp. Worth looking at, and reading the comments by viewers. It all very encouraging and positive.

 

[Toddy]

Linen is long staple; it doesn't swell up the way cotton does.
Cotton is a short (think about an inch and that's good, linen is over handspans) staple and it's thirsty. Linen breathes while cotton absorbs is a fair enough way to look at it.

Personally I prefer linen, but, for tarps and the like, cotton's the better fabric just because it does swell up and close in the wet.

The sails on the Viking longships were made of wool.
Good wool, barathea and it's ilk are superb fabrics, but they're both heavy and expensive.
Again, cotton wins.

 

[Woody girl]

I'm not arguing against cotton, it's a natural fibre after all. It has its applications, as do all natural fibres, and products.
I'd rather own cotton clothes than synthetic ones.
The main arguments seems to be centred around cost in monetary terms, rather than environmental. Which is to me, rather short sighted.
Now we know what damage plastic does to our environment and our bodies, surely we should make better choices, and avoid plastic and synthetics as much as we can. Refusing that plastic wrapped veg and cheese is one small step.
I simply buy loose veg in the greengrocers, where I also refill my glass milk bottle, and buy my cheese at the deli, which uses paper to wrap it with. Our butcher will also wrap meat plastic free if you ask.

 

[Pattree]

Now I’m probably going to get shot down in flames here but ………

I burn a some of my plastic waste. In particular: the thin sealing membrane that comes from some food packaging and plastic paste tubes. These cannot easily be decontaminated. Is that environmentally sound? - No of course not. It releases particles into the air both <2.5pm and >2.5pm plus the attendant CO2 and dioxins.
However: these particles are less damaging and more degradable than micro particles of polymer. Also they will wash and precipitate out of the air here in the UK.

If I put them into recycling, a very small proportion of high grade material will be used to make other plastic items. For example I don’t burn the inevitable plastic bottles. The rest will be exported to countries with which we have signed contracts. The government states that it has contracts with safeguards in place and it hides behind these contracts knowing perfectly well that UK waste materials are being dumped or burned at low temperatures (open fires) in the contracting countries. I believe that we should keep our crap to ourselves and spend much more on high temperature incineration.

I totally sympathise with the idea of plastic free camping. Indeed in my opinion we should be thoughtful about the impact on the planet of any hobby / non essential pastime.

I recognise that plastic free camping would be difficult to arrange, heavy to carry and expensive, particularly in our climate. It will also require much more care in use and storage. Perhaps we would value it more.

I applaud the attempt.

pee ess:-
Just a thought - is silk equipment acceptable? Probably not for many here.

 

[Toddy]

Now I’m probably going to get shot down in flames here but ………

I burn a some of my plastic waste. In particular: the thin sealing membrane that comes from some food packaging and plastic paste tubes. These cannot easily be decontaminated. Is that environmentally sound? - No of course not. It releases particles into the air both <2.5pm and >2.5pm plus the attendant CO2 and dioxins.
However: these particles are less damaging and more degradable than micro particles of polymer. Also they will wash and precipitate out of the air here in the UK.

If I put them into recycling, a very small proportion of high grade material will be used to make other plastic items. For example I don’t burn the inevitable plastic bottles. The rest will be exported to countries with which we have signed contracts. The government states that it has contracts with safeguards in place and it hides behind these contracts knowing perfectly well that UK waste materials are being dumped or burned at low temperatures (open fires) in the contracting countries. I believe that we should keep our crap to ourselves and spend much more on high temperature incineration.

I totally sympathise with the idea of plastic free camping. Indeed in my opinion we should be thoughtful about the impact on the planet of any hobby / non essential pastime.

I recognise that plastic free camping would be difficult to arrange, heavy to carry and expensive, particularly in our climate. It will also require much more care in use and storage. Perhaps we would value it more.

I applaud the attempt.

pee ess:-
Just a thought - is silk equipment acceptable? Probably not for many here.

Oiled silk is very good. Used to be used for maps and the like.
It makes a very good lightweight tarp, but it's easily snagged, not so much torn, but snagged. Not good in rough woodlands sort of thing.

Honestly ? it's hard to beat ripstop nylon, it really is.
Waxed cotton was the best I could come up with. Keep the silk for underclothes and a liner for the sleeping bag.

 

[Woody girl]

Now I’m probably going to get shot down in flames here but ………

I burn a some of my plastic waste. In particular: the thin sealing membrane that comes from some food packaging and plastic paste tubes. These cannot easily be decontaminated. Is that environmentally sound? - No of course not. It releases particles into the air both <2.5pm and >2.5pm plus the attendant CO2 and dioxins.
However: these particles are less damaging and more degradable than micro particles of polymer. Also they will wash and precipitate out of the air here in the UK.

If I put them into recycling, a very small proportion of high grade material will be used to make other plastic items. For example I don’t burn the inevitable plastic bottles. The rest will be exported to countries with which we have signed contracts. The government states that it has contracts with safeguards in place and it hides behind these contracts knowing perfectly well that UK waste materials are being dumped or burned at low temperatures (open fires) in the contracting countries. I believe that we should keep our crap to ourselves and spend much more on high temperature incineration.

I totally sympathise with the idea of plastic free camping. Indeed in my opinion we should be thoughtful about the impact on the planet of any hobby / non essential pastime.

I recognise that plastic free camping would be difficult to arrange, heavy to carry and expensive, particularly in our climate. It will also require much more care in use and storage. Perhaps we would value it more.

I applaud the attempt.

pee ess:-
Just a thought - is silk equipment acceptable? Probably not for many here.

Just don't buy stuff that comes wrapped in plastic. I've recently discovered toothpaste powder (something that was common before toothpaste tubes) and toothpaste tablets that come in a paper wrapping, which I then put into one of those minni jam jars. You can make your own toothpaste using bicarb, so that would solve having to burn waste plastics.
We had our recycling collection this morning, my bins didn't go out as there is so little in them, it wasn't worth the effort. I shall put them out in about a fortnight/three weeks time, about half full.
All food waste goes into the garden compost bin.
If I have a takeaway cuppa, I have my bamboo mug in my bag, so I don't have to worry about that, and I also keep a folding metal spork in it so I have eating implements with me at all times, plus a stainless water bottle. Still working on a plate that isn't the size of a Frisbee and weighs a ton!

Plastic free wash kit for holidays and camp isn't hard, but things like sun cream are!

 

[Pattree]

Stainless steel tableware isn’t very heavy.
( hang on - this calls for an experiment)

Back-

Plastic 220mm plate 123gm.
Stainless steel 200mm plate 160gm
Ceramic 210mm plate 473gm
Dead cheap 330mm stainless steel serving plate from Charlies also 473gm.

Not uniform specimens but all I’ve got.

I carry an SS spork and a bamboo cup as well

Some years I saw that a Pringles tin was almost all recyclable but no one would recycle it because it was so difficult to separate plastic cardboard and steel. I don’t eat Pringles but Cadburys pack Green and Blacks cocoa in a similar canister. I religiously cut the steel from the bottom and recycle it together with the plastic lid and the tiny amount of foil from the seal. I burn the plasticised cardboard cylinder. I wonder, as I dump my recycling whether anyone bothers with these small quantities.

I wish I needed to make my own tooth paste. Do you have a recipe for fixative?

 

[Woody girl]

Uhu or superglue?
I'm looking at a round tiffin lunchbox in stainless steel, it can also be a bowl if needed.

 

[neoaliphant]

I tend to take a wider view. If it's an old refurbished thing then it may be synthetic but it's better to keep using it. Get as much life as possible out of stuff, then repurpose it and eventually dispose of responsibly.

Also worth considering the way things like "natural" fabrics are produced. Most cotton these days is grown in arid areas, irrigated using scarce river water (that's why the Aral Sea dried up) and needs heavy input of fertilizer and pesticides to reach harvest. It is also difficult to distinguish cotton picked by slave/prison labour.

Sooooo...... the sad reality is that most cotton will have been drenched in hydrocarbon-derived fertilizer and pesticides, and have a high environmental footprint such that it's entirely possible that a responsibly made synthetic canvas may actually have a lower environmental and social impact than cotton canvas.

You can get some responsibly sourced cotton dressmaking fabric but you need to be looking for it (there's some specific certification schemes) and typically it's quite costly- ideal for "forever" garments you make yourself- but most folk don't dress like that!

GC

Ikea cotton, bedsheets or otehrwise is ethically sourced
my wife makes most of her dresses out of bedsheets.....

we dont have any new plastic clothing, wool or cotton or linen, but its more for the microplastics than anything else, also weve noticed less rashes.....

 

[Pattree]

Uhu or superglue?
I'm looking at a round tiffin lunchbox in stainless steel, it can also be a bowl if needed.

But that’s exactly what a 14cm Zebra pot is!
The little inner tray works as a small frying pan or a bowl and the lid fits either pot, bowl or both.

A leather strap or band would hold lid and bowl together when that was all you wanted. If not leather then a small cotton bag - they are always useful.

The cheap Summit stainless steel bowl also fits perfectly into the Zebra pot and accept the same lid. Keep the curry hot while you boil the rice.

If you didn’t want to buy a Zebra pot then buy a Summit bowl and look for a 14cm pan in a charity shop and use that lid.

As a last resort:
If a little 100mm tin is of any use you can have this one. Bought it for pennies years ago and never used it.

 

[neoaliphant]

As a last resort:
If a little 100mm tin is of any use you can have this one. Bought it for pennies years ago and never used it.
View attachment 86296

I use that pot, its called a tiffin pot, got from poundland for ..wait for it....£1

ive got it in my smaller kit, did some boil testing with it a while ago, not to bad.
but i use mine as a bowl for porridge.....

 

[Woody girl]

As a last resort:
If a little 100mm tin is of any use you can have this one. Bought it for pennies years ago and never used it.
View attachment 86296

That looks perfect for what I'm thinking of. If you realy don't want or need it, I can certainly use it. I'll pm you later tonight when i have more time. Just felting some dryer balls atm, and sat down for 2 mins to have a quick cuppa, txt a friend, and catch up on replies here.

 

[Woody girl]

Tiffin box arrived today, thanks Pattree, it is perfect for several applications.
Thanks very much .

 

[Pattree]

Sorry about the plastic packaging. Wife bought a crate of those envelopes for her business before any of us knew any better.

Enjoy.

 

[Woody girl]

Sorry about the plastic packaging. Wife bought a crate of those envelopes for her business before any of us knew any better.

Enjoy.

No worries, it will be recycled!
I'm presently laid up with a knackered back..tried to move some mahoosive paving stones on my own this morning to try and finish the path to the compost bin, (silly woman!) So it will be early next week before I can post your thank you package.
Why do I do this? Just got so fed up with waiting for help to lay just two paving slabs. It's been months waiting for the proffered help, I must remember I can't lift and carry as I once used to!