PhDs
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I know someone with a PhD. It's not to be taken lightly. It took them 6 years plus an extra 2 year extension due to a problem (the universities fault not hers). The amount of work required was stupendous!
It can be handy or amusing sometimes when people automatically assume she's a medical doctor and she doesn't bother correct them.
It can be handy or amusing sometimes when people automatically assume she's a medical doctor and she doesn't bother correct them.
Something else which I have realized too is that a PhD doesn't mean the person is just an expert in their specific field of study. It also means that they have learned the skills required to be a world class researcher. A very powerful skill indeed which can be used with a wide range of other subjects.
I also think that having a PhD also gives them access to university libraries and other academic documents which aren't available in the public domain. The information found here can sometimes be useful too.
I also think that having a PhD also gives them access to university libraries and other academic documents which aren't available in the public domain. The information found here can sometimes be useful too.
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D-in-law did one. 4+ years, helluva grind. It is a lot of work and as HG says, not to be taken lightly. Worth it? depends on what you need it for, D-in-law works with synchrotrons/particle accelerators so it enabled her to get that particular job but if it's just for something to do then not sure i'd fill that gap with a PhD. She had to do a lot of research, results analysis and writing of reports, all peer reviewed etc. Was a tough one and very very specialized.
I know some folks who have a phd and for those who wanted to have a path into academia it worked well. From a career perspective it’s less clear and I was advised that it’s not worth doing, that a well directed masters (or two) could be more useful, offers the option of different areas of study. As a full timer you’ll be a skivvy for those higher up the ivory tower. I opted not to take the phd route based on that advice and on the realistic expectation of the amount of work involved as I’d already just finished a masters and had an idea of the effort involved, esp as a part timer.
I have PhD’s in the family.
First job is to be accepted for a research project in your area of interest.
Most of the rest depends on what that project is but it’s several years at least. You are developing new thinking in the chosen area.
It is academic / educational.
It is not vocational or training. That comes afterwards, usually from an employer or internship.
What’s it for:
Mainly to give access to higher end employment, clients or resources. There must be loads of personal reasons.
It can be VERY useful to be networking over those long years.
An aside:
There used to be an Australian “Management Development Guru” doing the circuit who would suggest that:
BSc. =. Bull Schit
MSc =. More Schit
PhD =. Piled Higher & Deeper.
Funny as an opener but I’d never mock any form of development or reject a relevant qualification if it were available.
First job is to be accepted for a research project in your area of interest.
Most of the rest depends on what that project is but it’s several years at least. You are developing new thinking in the chosen area.
It is academic / educational.
It is not vocational or training. That comes afterwards, usually from an employer or internship.
What’s it for:
Mainly to give access to higher end employment, clients or resources. There must be loads of personal reasons.
It can be VERY useful to be networking over those long years.
An aside:
There used to be an Australian “Management Development Guru” doing the circuit who would suggest that:
BSc. =. Bull Schit
MSc =. More Schit
PhD =. Piled Higher & Deeper.
Funny as an opener but I’d never mock any form of development or reject a relevant qualification if it were available.
However, if you think it will get you more job opportunities be very careful. It will depend entirely on what sort of work you want and the recruitment policies of hiring companies. In some disciplines a Masters degree can be seen as more valuable.
Not quite. You can do it that way, but you don't need to at all, you can self fund and find someone willing to supervise you. There is no need to be part of an existing project.
Yes I remember that particular joke referring to the mountains of paperwork that were strewn around the living room at the time.
You can indeed do it that way if you can afford it but then you have the added task of hawking your proposal around the various relevant departments. That can take you all over the UK.
What area you looking for @Tengu ?
I think a PhD is only worth it for three things.
It's a vital part of your career development...and that's usually taken by someone following through from a Masters and with a clear idea of what they really want to specialise in.
It's not usually suitable for a generalist at all, but people preen a bit with the doctorate. Fair enough, it's a lot of work, work you have to defend, and academia is not kind, is not generous financially on the way up. The fee burdens afterwards often wipe out years of income. Universities are chasing students for the course fees, but it's still not a walk in.
The second one is someone with a real interest and the financial security to pursue that interest.
I love those ones, they're usually older, true characters, the kind of people that it's a joy to sit and talk with, sometimes the specialism is so esoteric you wonder how they ever found Advisors prepared to sign off on the subject.
Self centred determination, for some it's a vindication, for others it's an ego thing, but either way, it's still a tremendous amount of effort, persistance and financial expense.
There are bursaries, funds, etc., available, but they are hotly contested, there are dozens of people trying to access every single source of revenue and support.
It's a vital part of your career development...and that's usually taken by someone following through from a Masters and with a clear idea of what they really want to specialise in.
It's not usually suitable for a generalist at all, but people preen a bit with the doctorate. Fair enough, it's a lot of work, work you have to defend, and academia is not kind, is not generous financially on the way up. The fee burdens afterwards often wipe out years of income. Universities are chasing students for the course fees, but it's still not a walk in.
The second one is someone with a real interest and the financial security to pursue that interest.
I love those ones, they're usually older, true characters, the kind of people that it's a joy to sit and talk with, sometimes the specialism is so esoteric you wonder how they ever found Advisors prepared to sign off on the subject.
Self centred determination, for some it's a vindication, for others it's an ego thing, but either way, it's still a tremendous amount of effort, persistance and financial expense.
There are bursaries, funds, etc., available, but they are hotly contested, there are dozens of people trying to access every single source of revenue and support.
Back in the days before everyone had a computer, Madame used to bring in needed income by typing PhD theses when we lived in Cambridge and had a young family . The majority of them were part of the natural progression of the student's career path and it struck me that the majority of science based theses were complementary to the research being done by the student's supervisor rather than their own original thinking. This was less true of Arts and Humanities where original thinking was paramount.
One particular PhD student's thesis in the field of Education led to a long-term fruitful personal and professional relationship, which led to career change and development for both Madame and myself and later research projects both jointly and severally, which contributed to improving the quality of life of a great many children and teachers. It also brought us a lot of personal satisfaction.
One particular PhD student's thesis in the field of Education led to a long-term fruitful personal and professional relationship, which led to career change and development for both Madame and myself and later research projects both jointly and severally, which contributed to improving the quality of life of a great many children and teachers. It also brought us a lot of personal satisfaction.
Don't do a PhD for any other reason than you are a bit of a nut and a bit driven and really want to do it. Definitely don't do it for vocational reasons because 1) you will likely be disappointed in the outcome 2) that simply won't supply you with the energy to complete. Spend at least a year looking for the right supervisor and another drafting the question. You are going to spend four or five years taking yourself apart and doubting every choice you make. So, know you want to do it. The personal rewards of completing are stupendous and you will come out the other side as a completely different person. You will also know more than anyone else in your chosen field, including the fact that you actually know next to nothing about anything. Don't underestimate the comfort and insight that brings. You will gain vast respect for the accomplishments of others and become a pain at dinner parties. It is great. If it is in you, do it.
Based on my experience with PhD holders working in aerospace engineering, I would view a PhD as an employment warning flag if I was interviewing. Most of the most insufferably difficult to work with people I have encountered have held PhDs in the field they are employed for (one of the others had a masters from MIT).
There are three reasons for this. They have tended to be fond of science experiments, they pursue things which interest them even if they will be of limited value to the company, not finishing because of constant tinkering, using project budget like it’s free to do so. PhD holders have tended to have the least interest in or understanding of working in a team, how their timely, relevant and clearly communicated work supports other functions and business processes. Lastly, the sense of intellectual superiority to those who don’t hold PhDs and how this comes through in reports, conversations and meetings.
Obviously not everyone I have worked with who has a PhD has been like that, but it has been a significant percentage.
There are three reasons for this. They have tended to be fond of science experiments, they pursue things which interest them even if they will be of limited value to the company, not finishing because of constant tinkering, using project budget like it’s free to do so. PhD holders have tended to have the least interest in or understanding of working in a team, how their timely, relevant and clearly communicated work supports other functions and business processes. Lastly, the sense of intellectual superiority to those who don’t hold PhDs and how this comes through in reports, conversations and meetings.
Obviously not everyone I have worked with who has a PhD has been like that, but it has been a significant percentage.
I wonder why you PhD’s behaved like that @C_Claycomb ?
I don’t know the details or context but that sounds very counter productive and needs to be managed. You need a good appraisal scheme and string management.
I don’t know how many employers I have discussed this with. I’m a trainer so I tend to bang on about training but that is what someone moving from the academic world to the commercial one needs - and lots of it. That is usually raised at interview.
Having Doctor in your title is great but you still have to learn the work like the rest of us.
I don’t know the details or context but that sounds very counter productive and needs to be managed. You need a good appraisal scheme and string management.
I don’t know how many employers I have discussed this with. I’m a trainer so I tend to bang on about training but that is what someone moving from the academic world to the commercial one needs - and lots of it. That is usually raised at interview.
Having Doctor in your title is great but you still have to learn the work like the rest of us.
Entertaining
as you know Chris, I have a PhD (trying not to take the insufferable comment to heart buddy ) and agree and disagree with equal measure. It's the ego that often gets in the way, not the qualification, unfortunately a PhD often involves a drive that most do not want to try....for good reason, a PhD if taken seriously is all commusuing, and often ends relationships.@C_Claycomb even in my field the ego in others is a pain...I don't make an issue of having a PhD and smile sweetly when I come across others that try to pull rank or take over... knowing that they will go down a few pegs shortly afterwards
It is the professors that are insufferable!!!
Now not all PhD's are the same, and the usefulness is targeted. The main issue with a PhD is that you specialise, so you effectively close doors on further opportunities...and more often than not are stuck on a single career path.
I listen and let everyone have a voice, and for me qualifications means simply that a person can focus for a period of time within a subject area. Now do I look at subject area, yes, I am in a science based team, but I am interested in how they perform as an important variable.
Would I recommend doing a PhD...if you are interested in your subject area, content with a set career path, and you can over preform to standout....then yes
....if you are unsure of your direction / career, reason to do it, or where you can see yourself in 20 years time...then the answer is no
In summary, Masters open doors and I know a few people that have 5 separate subject area Masters qualifications, over getting a PhD.
Looking forward to the next generation, practical skills are more important, and interest.
Just to answer the PhD duration, mine took 3 years, but I did stupid 32 hour days often (worked through the day, night and into the next day), for the last two years while gaining and analysing water, soil samples and botanical data.
Main question to ask yourself is why do you want a PhD?
For me, I thought it was to prove to others that they were wrong about me...only to realise I was proving to myself my worth...I am grateful for that and have never turned back
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In my family PhD’s have not limited career scope. They got folk into positions of authority and indeed specialism but after a few years in industry two of them are now directors in project management teams. They have reached the level that leaves their academic specialism behind and demands organisational and people skills.
They tell me that hitting your PhD running following your masters / MPhil at the same academic institution is the simplest way. They certainly don’t regret their PhD’s
They tell me that hitting your PhD running following your masters / MPhil at the same academic institution is the simplest way. They certainly don’t regret their PhD’s
I was wondering how long this would take to turn sour
I don't think it really has; I think that folks have written very valid viewpoints.
