PHD or Alpkit sleeping bag?

[Paul_B]

Both companies are selling lightweight sleeping bags that look on paper very good. I'm looking at two that on paper look to have very similar performances. Not sure which is best.

Due to spring sale at PHD one of their bags has dropped to £186 a drop of about £100. Details below.

PHD 6C, Alpkit 7C comfort
500g vs 600g
900 fill power vs 750 or 800
No zip (options for short and long zips for £25/£45 IIRC) vs long zip
£186 up to £225ish with long zip vs £140
Very low pack size vs low pack size.

Looking at this Alpkit seems better value but with a short zip, even a long zip the PHD sale price puts it at a typical price for a heavier bag from a mainstream brand like Rab.

With the reputation of PHD I'm tempted by the bargain. The use is summer camping for my son and especially to reduce weight and bulk for cycle touring. I've got a quilt that is 6 years + old and 690g (very light in its day i can tell you) that's rated to -7C comfort. My other bag is a similar rating but down and primaloft outer layer weighing about 1.3kg IIRC. Both my bag and quilt are in xl size. The family needs 3 bags in total so this PHD or Alpkit bag would be the last one we need to get.

So which is your recommendation? Is there any very light/low pack size alternative for £140-£225 price range?

 

[scottishpinz]

I too have been looking closely at lightweight sleeping bags. PHD definitely make some of the best bags available and Alpkit make some of the most cost effective bags I've seen. Looking closely at the specs I see some of the cheaper mid range temperature rated Alpkit bags are through stitched. A zip is really handy to not only get into the bag but to cool off and use the bag over a wider temperature range. With down "Fill Power" is everything and higher numbers mean less weight of down needed to give same insulation. If you are not backpacking with the bag then this weight saving is not so necessary. You quote the fill weights but not the total bag weights. Remember adding a zip to PHD bag will increase weight. When looking at products I tend to do a weight to cost ratio comparison. If the cost difference is £46 - £85 and the weight saving is say 100 g then could that money save you more than 100 g replacing another item of kit? I would look for a weight to cost ratio of at least 1000 g saved per £100 spent unless you are moving from lightweight kit to ultra lightweight kit when it will cost more and more to save a few grams.

 

[Paul_B]

800 vs PHD 900 down fill power. I think the stated width (diameter) difference is something like 15cm vs 13cm for the 900 fill power.

The finished bag weight, like for like with full zip, is 600g vs 500g or very close to that. The difference in price is about £85 like for like with features. PHD is box wall vs stitch through for the Alpkit.

It is undoubtedly true that PHD has the better product. I think the PHD works out at about £118 per 100g weight saving. I've bought based on less in my backpacking days but have done a lot better too. A couple off kilos for £140 with a sleeping bag. Later to be replaced for £100 quilt bargain saving 610g. 2.6kg tent to500g tarp/bivvy for£100. Little, cheap items also worked out good weight savings too

Those were my old backpacking days. I don't need to go as extreme. 140g ccf mat as a freebie with a tent. Cut it down to fit just my torso got it to 80g, a drop from 1100g old thermarest. I just couldnt move or I'll drop off it!

 

[firedfromthecircus]

I've got an Alpkit bag and I think it's great for the money. It was my first down bag though so I would have noticed a giant leap with any other down bag I'm sure.
Never used any PHD stuff, but they do have a very good rep and the lightweight bikepacker guys seem to love the stuff. I think you will be getting a good product with either so it comes down to what personal preference swings it for you. I wouldn't want a bag without a zip though!

 

[Highbinder]

some of the cheaper mid range temperature rated Alpkit bags are through stitched.

Owning a stitch-though underquilt I would consider a stitch through design to be a deal breaker. Unless of course you enjoy cold spots.

 

[Paul_B]

The PHD option allows for modification in the sales sleeping bags as they're made to order. They are not standard products so you'd have to go through their design your own customisation to get these bags outside of the sales. They're a lot cheaper too. The options include no zip/short zip/long zip in left, right and for short zip in the centre too. The width can be slim to wide and length from short to extra long. Alpkit do a long version too.

My doubt over Alpkit is due to the temp rating according to en standard measured by Leeds uni. It's 7C vs 6C but it has too much to go against it. Stitch through, 800 not 900 fill power but only 100g difference in weight. This weight difference is also partly caused by lighter materials used by PHD (fabrics, etc).

Alpkit use en standard tests I believe. PHD use the experience and decades of data collection by the founder Peter Hutchinson. He was the lead designer from mountain equipment for a very long time. Some say he was responsible for ME gaining its excellent reputation for down products. Undoubtedly the company PHD will only sell good products with it's origins being effectively built on the back of ME and PH's history with down products.

The bottom line though is whether the quality of PHD is worth the extra to us? Both products are light, both are rated to the same temperature use and both products will pack down into a small package. That means Alpkit being cheaper by some margin is perhaps the best choice. PHD is throwing unnecessary money at it? Unless the technical advantages are worth the money.

 

[Lithril]

I've not tried the Alpkit bags although I know people that like them, however I do own 2 x PHD bags and they're truly excellent. I think if you can stretch to them they'd be my first choice.

 

[Paul_B]

What's the fabric like? One image made me think it was shiny. Western Mountaineering brand uses a shiny outer fabric and they're probably a similar quality and performance.