Peak oil

[stotRE]

Found this on the net http://www.hubbertpeak.com and found it both interesting and alarming.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Hi mate,
I am studing the development already for some month and here is another great link with a collection of information if you like to get deeper into the subject.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Introduction.html

cheers
Abbe

 

[Joules]

But surely, as supply runs out prices go up and so industrial output goes down, as fewer can afford the products... Likewise a population reduction will start to occur, as nations kill each other for fewer resources, and likewise those in the middle starve, or die from disease, due to poor supply of all manner of things. The world will self regulate, just not in a way people will find acceptable.

Too may greedy people at the top, that think they are above it all, we have alternatives, but they need to be funded sensibly, and without vested interests, something I feel humans are incapable of... Well those that rise to the top of a political ladder.

We could make much better use of resources, but who's going to act as resource policeman... Inspector Bush, and Constable Blair I don't think...


Joules

Make bicycles VAT free, and pay users the congestion charge... Turn Mac D's into cycle parking...

 

[stotRE]

Hi mate,
I am studing the development already for some month and here is another great link with a collection of information if you like to get deeper into the subject.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Introduction.html

cheers
Abbe

Cheers mate, makes for very interesting reading.
Seems that our so called masters are going to get there comeuppensce when the gravy train is de-railed and we all have to say goodbye to the decadence that we have enjoyed for the last hundred years.
It seems that history repeats itself and people have short memories,Eygpt,the Romans,the British empire.
Seems were due a wakeup call!

 

[Motorbike Man]

But surely, as supply runs out prices go up and so industrial output goes down, as fewer can afford the products... Likewise a population reduction will start to occur, as nations kill each other for fewer resources, and likewise those in the middle starve, or die from disease, due to poor supply of all manner of things. The world will self regulate, just not in a way people will find acceptable.

Too may greedy people at the top, that think they are above it all, we have alternatives, but they need to be funded sensibly, and without vested interests, something I feel humans are incapable of... Well those that rise to the top of a political ladder.

We could make much better use of resources, but who's going to act as resource policeman... Inspector Bush, and Constable Blair I don't think...


Joules

Make bicycles VAT free, and pay users the congestion charge... Turn Mac D's into cycle parking...

At the moment, yes, I would have to agree with that, but in the future, I think we will do better than we are at the moment.

Of course if you listen to the conspiracy theorists the technology for free energy already exists but is being suppressed by the people who make money out of oil. I've just read and interesting book by Nick Cook (who used to be on the editorial staff of Jane's ) about his hunt for antigravity technology after a mysterious package was left on his desk. The book is called The Hunt For Zero Point and apart from being a very interesting account of his investigations in it's own right, opens some very interesting questions on just who actually has what technology.

Very thought provoking stuff

 

[Joules]

Thats the beauty of these forums, a little bit more freedom for the underlings. Community in cyberspace...only so reliant on fossil fuels for it's current survival. I'd love to see wind/solar powered servers, better use of low power tech. Even charging your batteries with solar panels helps.

I get dismayed that the goverment pays lipservice to so many current renewables.. They don't seem to want mass adoption of them, as they are very happy to tax the crap out of anything related.

Thanks for the link MBM, I'll keep an eye open for that book.

 

[Great Pebble]

Hmmm... one thing that you can be absolutely certain of.
However "bad" things get for "our leaders" things for me & thee (or our offspring) will be a heck of a lot worse.

I'd also be inclined to examine just how much oil there is under Siberia and where the investment in "New Russia" is coming from...

 

[Motorbike Man]

Thats the beauty of these forums, a little bit more freedom for the underlings. Community in cyberspace...only so reliant on fossil fuels for it's current survival. I'd love to see wind/solar powered servers, better use of low power tech. Even charging your batteries with solar panels helps.

I get dismayed that the goverment pays lipservice to so many current renewables.. They don't seem to want mass adoption of them, as they are very happy to tax the crap out of anything related.

Thanks for the link MBM, I'll keep an eye open for that book.

It's well worth a read, good investigative journalism, quite tense at time and then there is the technology involved. Gets my thumbs up

 

[stotRE]

Hmmm... one thing that you can be absolutely certain of.
However "bad" things get for "our leaders" things for me & thee (or our offspring) will be a heck of a lot worse.

I'd also be inclined to examine just how much oil there is under Siberia and where the investment in "New Russia" is coming from...

Apparently at present to extract 400 barrels of oil only 1 barrel is used but the easy oil for want of a term is pretty much used up.The so called oil reserves or new oil sites will require 1barrel expendeture for the gain of 1 1/2 barrels.
As of present oil demand is increasing by 3 percent every year but oil production is down by 2 percent.This leaves a gap of 5 percent.
As for investment in "New Russia" we could probably use the term "New Labour" or "New Neocon" or "New Opec".

 

[Abbe Osram]

Very interesting reading are the books of: Jared Diamond
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-9354844-2515943?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


He studied the case why Societies Collapse. Looking back in history and seeing the development of the human race I have no hopes that we will change our behaviour in time and change away from the dependencies of oil. I believe mankind will see terrible times when oil prices sky rock. With all the shipping of stuff around the world, and the destruction of our infrastructure I believe there will not be time to make all the nations again self-sufficient building up a farming culture to live from. Especially here in Europe we get tomatoes and Salad from Spain, meat from Ireland, textiles from china…ahhhh actually most stuff now comes from china while our industries are closing down and moving to the east. I think that we will see tuff times in around 10 to 15 years. The high oil prices will make food and every item really expensive while we at the same time suffer a very high unemployment rate and the collapse of our welfare system. After communism I believe our western civilisation is next to crumble. The global market I believe will be soon a thing of the past.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Joules]

OOOOh, all good stuff to come then. Teach your kids how to fend for themselves, not to be solicitors and stock brokers, as they are going to end up on the menu....


Joules

 

[stotRE]

OOOOh, all good stuff to come then. Teach your kids how to fend for themselves, not to be solicitors and stock brokers, as they are going to end up on the menu....


Joules

Know any good recipes lol

 

[Joules]

Spit roast............................REAL SLOW.... you want the hard barstewards to soften up nicely.... Yum, must dig out my nose bone....


Joules

 

[BorderReiver]

IMO work on fuel cells is far enough advanced to help out when the oil starts to become scarce.
Cells will run cars and also provide power and heat for houses.The national grid will become obsolete and these ugly pylons will disappear.There will be no need for nuclear power or windfarms.
When push comes to shove there will sufficient money made available to accelerate the final developement of domestic fuel cells and everything will be wonderful.

SWMBO is always telling me to stop moaning about the state of the planet and think positively.

How am I doing?

 

[Lithril]

IMO work on fuel cells is far enough advanced to help out when the oil starts to become scarce.
Cells will run cars and also provide power and heat for houses.The national grid will become obsolete and these ugly pylons will disappear.There will be no need for nuclear power or windfarms.
When push comes to shove there will sufficient money made available to accelerate the final developement of domestic fuel cells and everything will be wonderful.

SWMBO is always telling me to stop moaning about the state of the planet and think positively.

How am I doing?

You not doing too bad, almost had me convince ;-) One thing that is annoying is that (and this isn't a discussion on them) with all the wind farms out there and proposed as well as other forms of renewable energy, its actually cheaper for them to be shutdown in times of surplus energy than power stations. So instead of storage or reducing waste output from powerstations they're kept running at background levels.

 

[Joules]

Blimey!!!

you haven't a chance mate of those ugly pylons going... As soon as eveyone has fuel cells at home, the goverment will be collecting it's fuel tax from source and selling the electric via the grid to consumers world wide.... Think yourself lucky to be British and getting 17.5% of the power from your fuel cell for your own use


Joules

 

[BorderReiver]

Blimey!!!

you haven't a chance mate of those ugly pylons going... As soon as eveyone has fuel cells at home, the goverment will be collecting it's fuel tax from source and selling the electric via the grid to consumers world wide.... Think yourself lucky to be British and getting 17.5% of the power from your fuel cell for your own use


Joules

Goodness me,what a negative attitude.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I am a bit lost here

I haven't been paying attention to this stuff for a few years and the last I heard was that fuelcells needed hydrogen to combine with oxygen and that they were only any good in conjunction with wind turbines, hydro electric, or nuclear, which could produce the hydrogen via electrolysis during off-peak hours.

So with fuelcells, you still need lots of windfarms, or something. Don't you?

 

[Joules]

Actually you can run a fuel cell on ethanol... This is acomplished with some illicit distillation... multitude of ingrediants that can be converted to alcohol fuels.

Just don't drink the raw produce


Joules

working on alcohol fuelled engines...

 

[Keith_Beef]

I am a bit lost here

I haven't been paying attention to this stuff for a few years and the last I heard was that fuelcells needed hydrogen to combine with oxygen and that they were only any good in conjunction with wind turbines, hydro electric, or nuclear, which could produce the hydrogen via electrolysis during off-peak hours.

So with fuelcells, you still need lots of windfarms, or something. Don't you?

What Chris and Joules say is about right.

You have direct conversion fuel cells, where you combine oxygen and hydrogen to give energy and water.

2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O

For this to work, you must first have isolated oxygen and hydrogen. The common way seems to be electrolysis of water, which require electricity. Then you need to liquify it, to be able to store a reasonable amount.

Another method is to use an indirect fuel cell, where your basic fuel is alcohol (methanol or ethanol). A catalytic reaction liberates hydrogen and oxygen, which are then recombined to give energy and water, as above.

The alcohol is gained from fermentation, which is the digestion of sugars by yeast. The sugars are produced by plants, through photosynthesis.

So, the indirect fuel cell is really a very indirect method of generating electricity from sunlight.


Keith.