No right to roam.

[Pattree]

This is obviously ridiculous and will take governments decades to correct, if they ever do.
It’s indefensible.

Walkers forced to trespass onto open access countryside

Right to roam campaigners say hundreds of "open country" locations are inaccessible to the public.

www.bbc.co.uk

The problem for ME is not that I’m prevented from reaching these areas but that a walk is sometimes spoiled by confrontation with the owner of the surrounding land.

Let me also say that I have had excellent conversations with some of these people who are often very knowledgeable and informative about their land.

 

[Wayne]

Whilst I am an advocate for open access to land and our waterways. I understand some of the frustrations of landowners.

The woodland I lease is often treated as a playground with no respect for the environment. My firewood burnt, litter etc. people intruding on courses to be inquisitive despite signs saying danger no entry.

 

[Pattree]

I do take your point Wayne but many of these sites are designated for public access and the landowner receives a tax concession for maintaining it so.

In other words I have paid them for access!

There is no excuse for the vandalism that is litter or foraging wood without permission which is theft. My understanding is that foraging plants and fungi for personal use is ok as long as they aren’t protected species.

@Wayne we found that a public information board about adders and a list of medical contacts limited the numbers of people climbing on the log piles at Delamere Forest.

 

[Broch]

There is nothing (theoretically) stopping you hiring a helicopter to winch you onto the islands

However, more seriously, I'm with Wayne on this. I sometimes think there should be a mandatory course - of several days - before anyone is allowed to enter 'the countryside'. Dogs running loose, litter, human excrement, large groups, noise, gates left open, cars parked in passing places, climbing and damaging fences and walls, disturbance of nesting birds and mammals, the list goes on sadly.

In addition, a great deal of the countryside is maintained and managed at personal cost by the landowner or volunteer groups; it doesn't look after itself and it's rarely taxpayer's money that pays for it. Maybe there should be an access fee

 

[Kadushu]

I don't think taking any resources - plants, fungi, logs, etc - is permissible on public access land. "Access" really only means the ability to walk on the land.

The farm I live on has had various trespassers on foot, quad bikes and horses over the years. Fences have been cut, buildings broken into and litter left behind. I understand people want to access the countryside but from the landowners' and farmers' point of view they just don't know who you are or what you're up to, especially at night.

 

[Chris]

It used to be that people were taught how to respect the countryside at school, by parents and by youth organisations.

Certainly couldn’t abide the idea at licensing outdoor access. People haven’t changed in the last hundreds of years, but the education they are provided (or not) has. People spend less time outdoors now, especially as kids, and therefore just aren’t used to how to behave.

Bushcraft and enjoyment of the outdoors should not be limited to landowners, the wealthy or people over a certain age. We should be encouraging people outdoors rather than trying to put barriers in place.

 

[Chris]

I don't think taking any resources - plants, fungi, logs, etc - is permissible on public access land. "Access" really only means the ability to walk on the land.

Completely legal to forage anywhere and everywhere. Not allowed to uproot plants, but can pick berries and fungi and leaves completely legally even on property on which you are trespassing. The only exception to this is cultivated crops, and they must be actually cultivated crops - not just someone saying “Oh yes I was cultivating those brambles” to stop people picking them.

 

[Pattree]

@Broch I have felt much the same about giving birth!!!!

I am appalled that anyone can take a boat out to sea without any qualification.

I used to ride motorbike and side-car which is driven totally differently from a motorbike but I could get a license on a Honda 50. In the same way a trailer or caravan creates a totally different vehicle from the four wheeled car that the driver used to get that license.

Unfortunately people are people and the relatively few idiots have to be picked up and have their bottoms wiped by the rest of us.

 

[Paul_B]

My understanding was that permissive paths were agreed in exchange for reduction in inheritance tax with large estates. Paths not land access. If someone can confirm the true legal situation with this.

Whatever the case treating it as yours by right of paying tax isn't exactly conducive to good relationships with landowners and indeed other users. Not that anyone here has such a militant outlook here. Not least because decades ago there was research published by an economic think-tank, possibly IFS, that determined the break even point of earnings at which you pay more into the state coffers than you take out in your share of the benefits was something like £50k over twice the average wage. I know that makes me a state sponger, how about you? Perhaps I need to pay more for access rights myself? Leisure tax perhaps?

 

[Pattree]

Maybe England and Wales need to establish some sort of legal union with Scotland.

 

[Broch]

Bushcraft and enjoyment of the outdoors should not be limited to landowners, the wealthy or people over a certain age. We should be encouraging people outdoors rather than trying to put barriers in place.

I agree, and I have run free courses and allow people who ask to walk and spend time in my woods. But, in general, who pays - the upkeep (and certainly the clearing up) isn't free.

But, I respectfully suggest you're not correct when you say people were taught about the countryside. In the past, certainly since the majority of the population lived in towns and cities, people in general did not venture into the country other than on 'formal' trips. My scoutmaster, in the 60's, knew nothing about the countryside. As a kid I taught him about natural history and some of the country etiquette.

I have wandered this island for too many years to count. I have found more than enough public and accessible land to indulge my passion without ever breaking the law. On the occasions I have had to use private land I have always asked and never been refused either for access or for overnighting. But, it may have helped that I have never seen this as a right.

I have decided however, since people seem to think that access should be allowed on private land, that I will never pay for town or city accommodation again; I'll just camp in someone's garden, use their rose beds as my convenience, and, if there's no outside tap, wander into their kitchen to get water - oh, I may even dig up the odd carrot.

 

[Paul_B]

Maybe England and Wales need to establish some sort of legal union with Scotland.

You do know that would end up with English laws and access rights. They'd only reduce not increase rights doing that!

 

[Chris]

I have decided however, since people seem to think that access should be allowed on private land, that I will never pay for town or city accommodation again; I'll just camp in someone's garden, use their rose beds as my convenience, and, if there's no outside tap, wander into their kitchen to get water - oh, I may even dig up the odd carrot.

Thankfully no one here seems to be suggesting that though, this is a thread about Access Land (specifically legal for people to enjoy) and people's ability to get to it.

 

[Pattree]

@Paul_B
That wasn’t a practical suggestion!!!!!

However the system works in Scotland.

 

[Paul_B]

Entitled rights is never a good look in any area of modern society.

There's always a cost to access and nobody truly pays for that cost except those working, living on and owning the land. They're the ones paying for irresponsible access. Of course we're all responsible here! Well except for the odd fire, water extraction, potential tree damage from swinging the night there, etc. That's besides the odd off path foraging excursion and so on.

The system works in Scotland? Will someone please remind me where it's now been banned from wildcamping in Scotland? Loch Lomond isn't the only area I believe. There's issues all the way down into Glen Coe even if those areas haven't been subject to restrictions. Not exactly working for everyone I suspect.

 

[Pattree]

I think some respondents are knowingly or unknowingly missing the point.

The areas in question in the OP are designated as public access areas.

 

[Broch]

I think some respondents are knowingly or unknowingly missing the point.

The areas in question in the OP are designated as public access areas.

No, I fully understand, and accept the folly of the situation; I actually laughed when I saw it in the news - I was just responding to the 'general right to access' comments.

However, people like Lewis Winks should take small victories. Landowners allowing permissive paths should be encouraged - they will remove permission if the access is abused so Mr Winks should concentrate on education.

 

[Paul_B]

I think some respondents are knowingly or unknowingly missing the point.

The areas in question in the OP are designated as public access areas.

Well looking at the article the research author mentions Gillcambon as being one of those access islands, however he later says there is agreed access under Higher Level Stewardship grant scheme so there is no issue with access. A quick look before I twigged it was the research author who said no issues with access about an island raised in the paper I found quite a few group walks through the area. Including one organised by the ramblers association local group to the area concerned in the Eden Valley area. How many more of those access islands also have no issues with access?

There was a point made, access costs to create and maintain. So should the farmer be paying for access to areas when access gets extended such as when the CRoW Act came into effect? I remember that time and a lot of the newly opened areas had no or little access. One area I know well ended up with drystone walls falling down at convenient to access points for the general public. Eventually the local council built gates into the access land but not at the point the public chose so those fallen down walls remained just with a barbed wire fence the other side until people got the hint and walked 50m down the road to the created access point.

Sorry but back to the article, it does sound like the situation is pockets of access land but there's access routes into it so not a problem in the end. Is the BBC into to clickbait / trigger stories these days by any chance?

 

[Kadushu]

Completely legal to forage anywhere and everywhere. Not allowed to uproot plants, but can pick berries and fungi and leaves completely legally even on property on which you are trespassing. The only exception to this is cultivated crops, and they must be actually cultivated crops - not just someone saying “Oh yes I was cultivating those brambles” to stop people picking them.

Is foraging legal in the UK? Know the law - BritishLocalFood

A brief guide of the law concerning the picking of wild plants and mushrooms in the UK that will clarify all your legal questions.

britishlocalfood.com

Footpaths and highways, yes. CRoW land, no.

 

[Chris]

Is foraging legal in the UK? Know the law - BritishLocalFood

A brief guide of the law concerning the picking of wild plants and mushrooms in the UK that will clarify all your legal questions.

britishlocalfood.com

Footpaths and highways, yes. CRoW land, no.

The link you provided there agrees with me.

"A landowner who confronts you whilst trespassing on his land is unable to confiscate the contents of your basket, as they belong to you. However, you still must leave the land at the earliest opportunity."

It's legal to go into your garden and pick mushrooms (from a theft point of view) if I want, though the entering of the land is in itself trespass. The going into your garden would be trespass, which is a civil offence and you'd have the right to ask me to leave which I would have to do. However, if I picked mushrooms you would not be allowed to take them back, they would legally be my property at that point.

Section 4, subsection (3) A person who picks mushrooms growing wild on any land, or who picks flowers, fruit or foliage from a plant growing wild on any land, does not (although not in possession of the land) steal what he picks, unless he does it for reward or for sale or other commercial purpose.

The trespass is not lawful, but the foraging of fungi/berries/leaves is as long as they're not being uprooted.