Natural Sweetener

[Ulsteryank]

Greetings all. My wife and I (more her than me) try abiding by the Primal Diet, which basically cuts out all grains&most sugars. For a sweetener we use Stevia, the sweet leaf the Native Americans used. The EU supposedly just made it available, but we've been ordering it online from companies in the States, which is a shame in theory being that in grows in the ground!. Basically I was curious to know if there's anything similar native to the British Isles? I'd be more inclined to going out and getting my own. Of course I can always find a way to grow Stevia myself, but it would be nice if there's something the local environment can provide us with.

Cheers!

 

[spiritwalker]

Get a bee hive for honey or grow sugar beet failing that find someone with a hive who is willing to exchange honey with some of your produce etc.

sugar cane is widely eaten by tribes as well depends what you call primal as all forms of sugar occur naturally. You could also use apple puree to sweeten stuff and any other sugary fruit

 

[Ulsteryank]

It's pretty similar to the Paleo ones based off of a book called The Primal Blueprint, and they guy's blog Mark's Daily Apple. The occasional honey is alright, but honestly I use it more than recommended, so I'm liking the hive idea. I also didn't think about the numerous things apple puree can be used for. Right on, many thanks!

 

[mountainm]

sweet cicely can be used to sweeten with but not sure it's practical in large quantities.

 

[Toddy]

Honey, the sugar beet, malt, some leaves like angelica will sweeten fruit cooked with it, fruit juices like pear, apple, grape, tree saps such as birch & sycamore. Some flourishes will add sweetness to teas and the like, not like sugar or artificial sweetners, but enough to take the bitterness away from herbs. Elderflowers for instance.
Boiled down milk concentrates the sweetness too. Indian and some Asian sweeties are based on this.

I think you'd struggle to grow Stevia.......it's naturally a semi tropical plant of arid regions. Fine if you have heated greenhouse in these damp and temperate islands, but that's fuel expensive and counter your aims I'd have thought

Until the advent of slave produced cane sugar, sugar was an expensive item and not commonly available in the diet.
In the 1560's the boy king James VI was unwell and the physicians presccribed sugar tablets
It's overuse in our diets is a very recent thing, comparatively speaking.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Ulsteryank]

Thanks again guys.

@Toddy
That's exactly why I was looking for a substitute, as my only chance would be with a green house, even more of a hassle especially if the EU approved it to become more readily available. It's really handy for the tea(mostly what I use it for), along with Elderflower. I'm liking the idea of using Angelica&tree saps. Definitely think I'll give those a go mate, cheers!

 

[Toddy]

None of our tree saps are as rich as the N. American sugar maple though. They need a lot of boiling down, and again, that's energy consumption

Don't see why those wouldn't grow in these islands however.

Best advice would be if you found you like evaporated milk in your tea or kept a few hives........or barter for honey as a lot of folks did/do. I like my tea just as it comes, but I know a lot of folks can't drink it unless it's full of sugar, or milk.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[lannyman8]

in the summer certain reeds and rushes when broken produce sap, this starts to dry and can be collected, the american indians used to use these as sweets for the kids and energy food on the trail....

not much cop for the ammounts your talking but worth a punt in the summer...

regards.

chris...

 

[Ulsteryank]

Right on! I collect plenty of rushes because I make Bridget's Crosses out of them. Looks I have Spring to look forward to tree-tapping, and Summer to get some good rushes.

 

[lannyman8]

cool.....

 

[Toddy]

How come a primal diet cuts out all grains ??
Grains are seasonal grasses and have from time immemorial been part of the seasonal foraging round.
Even when our islands were covered in woods the little wood millet grows grains.
Elsewhere in the world this is even more commonplace, from the wild rice of the N.American lakes to the origins of wheat in the Fayoum in Egypt and the fertile crescent.

Cultivation was simply an organised exploitation of a natural crop.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Ulsteryank]

I'm probably one of the worst people that could explain it lol, but the book The Primal Blueprint, and articles at Marksdailyapple.com go into detail about it.

It basically tries to follow as much as possible, but in a modern setting the diet our paleo ancestors followed which was basically a high fat, high protein, low carb diet in the view in 10,000 years our bodies haven't evolved. It debunks a lot of myths and is inspired by views that the advent of agriculture lead up to a lot of health issues with humanity, auto-immune diseases, tooth decay, diabetes, e.t.c., (all of this according to the book)which I did oddly enough hear at a visit to the Cahokia mounds that their overdependency on such helped contribute to the Mississippian Mound Builders' downfall.

To be honest my wife follows it a lot more than me. You're suppose to stick to it at least 80% of the time to allow room for treats, but I don't even do that. I just started doing it after my wife convinced to give it a go, and happened to notice my beer gut just disappeared, and I virtually never get sick or the colds anymore, however I also do take a bit of rice, and starchy carbs like potatoes&carrots, plus more than the recommended fruit. I've worked out it's mainly the gluten with me, so take the odd gluten-free treat as well.

 

[Toddy]

Hmmm, I'm kind of dubious tbh.
Mankind *chooses* the best foods, despite our apparant physical frailties, and makes strategies and alters the environment to best obtain those and has done so for longer than Homo sapiens sapiens was the prime ape.
The gender division of labour studies (and the more recent analysis of the chemical structure of the surviving bones and teeth support this) implies that protein rich food is not the basis for the diet of past peoples.
There are obvious caveats to this, the Inuit for instance and other ice hunters, but that's a rather unique environmental niche and they do eat the guts of marine mammals which contributes significantly to their dietary balance.

There's a very interesting book called, "Catching fire, how cooking made us human ", by Richard Wrangham.

My background is archaeology with a fair bit of ethnobotany in it. This topic interests me
Humanity exploited virtually every food source at one time or another. The only thing we really screw up on nowadays is seasonality.

A discussion for another thread perhaps.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[pteron]

Not protein rich - saturated fat rich. The evolutionary evidence is that we were scavengers first - eating the bone marrow and other scraps of kills after the other predators had finished. this was very nutritionally dense and contributed to our rapid development.

Modern grains, especially gluten grains, are very late in our evolution. The latest studies on antibody reaction to glutens suggest that very few modern homo sapiens have the gene to deal with wheat.

I admit I'm a convert - here's why http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/6/23/the-argument-against-cereal-grains.html

 

[Toddy]

I admit I struggle with gluten rich grain food for more than a few days at a time; but it's astonishing the number of other 'grains' that are very, very good food Millet, quinoa, rice, sorghum.....

The legume family alone is incredibly nutritious food; but we can exploit so many others to feed ourselves.

Neat link thank you but I disagree entirely about avoiding *all* grains. Humanity thrives on diversity and that man's viewpoint is a tad biased.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[pteron]

Toddy, much love and respect for you, but he's not talking opinion, he points to the scientific studies to back up his assertions. He's a doctor http://www.archevore.com/about-me/, but many of his peers are microbiologists studying this in depth. I spend much time reading the pubmed links (the online archive of peer reviewed studies) and I'm absolutely convinced.

I started reading about this after our bushmoot at which I learned you and listen clear didn't eat wheat. Thanks, you have changed my life. The energy I have and the fact I haven't been ill since I dropped it are my testaments to the diet. At work, they drop to winter colds like flies. This is what I follow: http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

 

[Toddy]

My objections are the claims for it to be the *primal* diet.

The primal diet was incredibly varied, very seasonal, very site/area specific. It included so many things that (in our westernised, food rich society) we wouldn't even contemplate eating now.
Animal guts, and the contents, insect protein, small nestlings, (bones and all) rodents, amphibians and such like.

Grains are incredibly nutritious food, and his claims that corn isn't, is mince
The defining criteria is that we process our food. Corn needs to be processed to give full nutrition, so do oats, so do peas and rice. So does animal protein.
Cooking is the most basic processing that makes food digestible and much more calorifically valuable.

My intolerance of gluten is my issue, but then I can't digest milk properly either, or fish. I'm not a good example to use.

However, I find that I can manage an occasional gluten rich meal, much as I suspect the real 'primal' diet did. Then our ancestors found out how to gather grain and store then sow thickly to encourage heavier cropping, and they did it world wide with a huge range of plants.

Basically I'm saying there are *no* bad foods. Just that a surfeit of almost any of them isn't really good for us.

In our food abundant society though it's easy for us to be picky, to create new *diets*, as that fellow claims.
It's not 'primal' though, it's very modern, very much a chosen lifestyle.

My big bother's a Doctor, every one of them has an opinion.......much like us

cheers,
Mary

 

[Ulsteryank]

Right on, I'll have to check that book out as it's all still fairly new to me, but what opened me eyes was discovering all of the stuff I thought was healthy, and how much crap our society really puts into stuff. How my parents thought I was being healthy due to advertisements of huge rich companies like Kelloggs, having me eat bowls of grains&sugar every morning for the better part of 18 years. How something simple like eating chicken soup&orange juice when sick was bollix because there's enough additives&sugar in most of things from the shop to actually lower my immune system. I never paid attention before on something like checking the back of a simple pack of burgers to see how a good lot of them have added wheat flour, and whatever starches&extracts, which is also found in restaurants where it's common to find MSG in things as little as their sauces. There's no wonder there's a rise in auto-immune diseases, that may be linked to candida overgrowth, and hidden by big pharmaceutical companies.

Therefore I'm into most of the natural DIY stuff now, even if it is just a wee bit of grains now&then. Becoming Primal got me into cooking which I greatly slacked in. I had a go at my first vegetable garden, getting local meats from the local butcher, and had no clue how good Kerrygold butter is lol. It all kind of ties in well with Bushcraft I think. I was a big Stout drinker too. Guinness, McEwan's, Youngs&Samual Smith's Chocolate Stouts, Oatmeal Stouts, the best! Now I kind of save them for special occasions within my 80%, and if treating myself more got into a little of the homebrew, and drink more wine, cider, and spirits than I ever used to. It's probably not for all, but it definitely suits me. A lot of it is just trying to be "as close to" Primal as you can in a modern setting, with times for cheats allowed, along with certain exercises and what not to go with it that resemble simple things our paleo ancestors would have done in their everyday lives.

 

[Emdiesse]

My objections are the claims for it to be the *primal* diet.

The primal diet was incredibly varied, very seasonal, very site/area specific. It included so many things that (in our westernised, food rich society) we wouldn't even contemplate eating now.
Animal guts, and the contents, insect protein, small nestlings, (bones and all) rodents, amphibians and such like.

Grains are incredibly nutritious food, and his claims that corn isn't, is mince
The defining criteria is that we process our food. Corn needs to be processed to give full nutrition, so do oats, so do peas and rice. So does animal protein.
Cooking is the most basic processing that makes food digestible and much more calorifically valuable.

My intolerance of gluten is my issue, but then I can't digest milk properly either, or fish. I'm not a good example to use.

However, I find that I can manage an occasional gluten rich meal, much as I suspect the real 'primal' diet did. Then our ancestors found out how to gather grain and store then sow thickly to encourage heavier cropping, and they did it world wide with a huge range of plants.

Basically I'm saying there are *no* bad foods. Just that a surfeit of almost any of them isn't really good for us.

In our food abundant society though it's easy for us to be picky, to create new *diets*, as that fellow claims.
It's not 'primal' though, it's very modern, very much a chosen lifestyle.

My big bother's a Doctor, every one of them has an opinion.......much like us

cheers,
Mary

With you on this one.

Although, I believe there is some truth in a diet based on our ancestors based on an understanding that over time we would have evolved to have the correct enzymes to process particular foods... Which is why I am going to carry on eating everything so my descendants will hopefully have the correct enzymes to process everything and never be short of food

However my favourite rule is this one:
Moderation and Variation are the key; Just eat everything, but not too much of one thing. If something really really doesn't agree with you your gut wrenches, you writhe with pain after you have eaten it, then don't eat it...

Anyway, just my opinion, and I am no way qualified to debate this. However these are my observations and understandings

oh, btw. I'm a healthy, active, 23 year old male. Eating everything probably comes from because I am active.... and male

 

[mrcharly]

My objections are the claims for it to be the *primal* diet.

The primal diet was incredibly varied, very seasonal, very site/area specific. It included so many things that (in our westernised, food rich society) we wouldn't even contemplate eating now.

I'm no expert at all, (and we have to bear in mind that Toddy has studied this), but I find myself agreeing with Toddy.

UK diet for a period included a lot of 'small beer' instead of straight water, for good reason. We have a high tolerance of alcohol - go to Japan where they don't have this history and they don't process alcohol as easily. Ditto North American natives. I had a friend at uni who couldn't tolerate cows milk but was fine with goat milk; he said that applied to everyone who came from his area of the middle east, no tradition of consuming cow's milk at all, just goats.

I think we adapt a bit faster than the '10 000 years' quoted. Grain consumption has been around in europe for quite a while.