Moose time! (Warning! Pictures of dead animals)

[Robson Valley]

There's a large family of very charming girls (40 - 50-somethings) who like to pack up a white table cloth lunch and set off, grouse hunting.
One drives a new GMC Suburban. More or less 6 passengers in 3 rows, open all the way to the back.
Now, away in the very back is a cardboard box. These girls toss the grouse into the box with the intention of stopping somewhere to field dress them all at once.
Well, the BIG lunch comes and goes and it's warm and sunny, quite peaceful except for shooting opportunities.

Several grouse in the box. The Suburban is full of people. Apparently, one grouse was not dead, just stunned.
That grouse decided to wake up and try to fly around inside the 'Burb. Eventually dispatched.

 

[Arya]

Leshy

Thank you! Yes, there is always some project going on here. I was only eight years old the first time I told my mother, in despair, that life is to short and I will never have time to do all the things I want to do

About the difference in the meat, I can only write what I was able to see and palpate. I didn´t eat meat from that moose.
It had been shot in the stomach, unfortunately, and probably ran for quite a while before it fell. The hunter probably feel a lot of shame. I know I would...
That is my biggest fear, placing a bad shot on such a large animal. So I think I´ll just hunt small game for a long time. A bad shot is terrible no matter the animal, but with a smaller animal I feel some kind of safety that I can physically overpower it and end it quite fast. It all depends on the situation of course.
A digresion, sorry

The meat of the "gut shot" moose/elk was like jelly, slipping away from the bones. There were also larger concentration of air bubbles in several of the fascias than of the others that had fallen momentarily.
There were of course a lot of damage to the meat in the area, and several kilos were thrown away (including parts of one of the tenderloins).

Ok, just to be sure; Tenderloin in English refers to the Psoas Major, doesn't it?

About your pig experience, that is almost creepy. The animals can be so sensitive! Poor thing.
By accident I overheard a pig being slaughtered the halal way, in Spain. It is the most horrible thing I have ever experienced and I will never forget it. I hate them for it!

 

[Arya]

There's a large family of very charming girls (40 - 50-somethings) who like to pack up a white table cloth lunch and set off, grouse hunting.
One drives a new GMC Suburban. More or less 6 passengers in 3 rows, open all the way to the back.
Now, away in the very back is a cardboard box. These girls toss the grouse into the box with the intention of stopping somewhere to field dress them all at once.
Well, the BIG lunch comes and goes and it's warm and sunny, quite peaceful except for shooting opportunities.

Several grouse in the box. The Suburban is full of people. Apparently, one grouse was not dead, just stunned.
That grouse decided to wake up and try to fly around inside the 'Burb. Eventually dispatched.

Hahaha! I can imagine the chaos!
Sounds like an awesome family gathering. How I wish my family was like that *dreaming*, but they are city slickers. Sometimes I wonder if I was adopted

 

[Robson Valley]

Different people have different "sensibilities." For many decades, it was necessary for me to live in cities, some of thousands of square miles.
However, I always drifted away to the countryside for recreation. In retirement, I'd made a plan to leave cities behind.

It worked. Life is far slower and cheaper. I can hunt and fish and buy and barter local food.
I liked seeing the moose butchering. Gets me all excited about what I can do with that in my kitchen and on the BBQ.

Took out 2kg bison roasts. Going to chunk that later and build a BIG pot of wine-braised bison.
Local onions, carrots and potatoes, too.
Bartered for some local pork, probably toss in the last of last night's pork chops, as well.

You live well, Arya. So nice when it works out.

 

[Arya]

Thank you Robson Valley! It is nice when one gets closer to the way one wants to live. I´m glad you found your way.
We can´t take any money or materials with us in the grave, so family/friends, passions, competence and memories are more important to me than anything else.
I am a migraineur with a rare type of migraine, so every good day is priceless I live it while and when I can!

Your dinner sounds way more interesting than mine today! Maybe I will get to taste bison in a distant future How would you compare bison to f.ex moose, or ox?

 

[Robson Valley]

Ah. Taste. Hard to say. Bison is a stronger, meatier cow taste. Does that help?
The taste changes enough that you notice, depending on the forage in the pasture (rain, sun, temp).
In the past 15 years of at least one side 2yr old per year, I got 2 "sweet" ones!

Moose is just different, as is venison, ox might be more like bison. Nothing ever better than moose gravy.
Elk is the top here but there's precious little bartering for the best of the best.

Mind you, done right, all you need for a bison dinner is a fork = no knife required.
Other than chunking everything, the wine braised bison cooks itself in 3 hours.
15 - 20 minutes to toss it all into a pot, quick stir and into the oven.

Gotta get bread done first to make oven space for the bison.

 

[Leshy]

Leshy

Thank you! Yes, there is always some project going on here. I was only eight years old the first time I told my mother, in despair, that life is to short and I will never have time to do all the things I want to do

About the difference in the meat, I can only write what I was able to see and palpate. I didn´t eat meat from that moose.
It had been shot in the stomach, unfortunately, and probably ran for quite a while before it fell. The hunter probably feel a lot of shame. I know I would...
That is my biggest fear, placing a bad shot on such a large animal. So I think I´ll just hunt small game for a long time. A bad shot is terrible no matter the animal, but with a smaller animal I feel some kind of safety that I can physically overpower it and end it quite fast. It all depends on the situation of course.
A digresion, sorry

The meat of the "gut shot" moose/elk was like jelly, slipping away from the bones. There were also larger concentration of air bubbles in several of the fascias than of the others that had fallen momentarily.
There were of course a lot of damage to the meat in the area, and several kilos were thrown away (including parts of one of the tenderloins).

Ok, just to be sure; Tenderloin in English refers to the Psoas Major, doesn't it?

About your pig experience, that is almost creepy. The animals can be so sensitive! Poor thing.
By accident I overheard a pig being slaughtered the halal way, in Spain. It is the most horrible thing I have ever experienced and I will never forget it. I hate them for it!

Apologies for lighthearted description of the Portuguese pig kill thing.
It wasn't a great experience and I was just a guest .
You are right , it was not done with the respect the animal deserves.

It was a boozy affair and more of a celebration than a actual ritual or ceremony ...

I have never tried moose, or reindeer , or big game like that , only venison but I will though... one day.

I don't eat much meat now, and I don't feel any worse for it.
I hate the idea of processed meat so I avoid it...but I'm a sucker for venison rabbit and lamb , and I'm sorry, I know they're cute and what not but ... I just love them !

I have never hunted . but if I did , it would have to be in the same manner as you described the folk there, where you are.

The respect that indigenous tribes had for all living things is admirable and appeals to me a great deal.
It just makes sense.
First Nations in the American Continent are a prime example . Their spiritual way of life and the relationship they had with their animals was/is beautiful, to me. It just feels right, as things should be.
I expect Nordic folk were exactly the same.

But I digress too...

The meat texture difference is an interesting point, and it shows that it does make a difference.
Thanks for confirming that, its very interesting.

I wish I had more time to get away and do things like learn butchering , skin tanning ,hunting , tracking, etc.
For now , these forums are great. Learning from other folk , their adventures,mistakes and their success.
Nothing like real experience , but it will do for now.
It helps that everyone likes sharing it!


Thanks for sharing your experiences and hope to see more of your adventures soon.

...oh and carvings ! ( They were really good , keep it up!)

👍

PS- You eat Horse????!!! 😱

 

[mrcharly]

Halal slaughter (done properly) shouldn't have been horrible. It's pretty much identical to how we used to slaughter sheep in australia.

Sharp knife, single cut to throat, bleed the animal out. Loss of consciousness in a few seconds, unless the wrong blood vessels are cut. It's how most butchers used to slaughter animals until very recently in most of Europe.

A blunt knife or someone lacking in confidence not cutting deep enough - yes, it could be highly unpleasant. Just like a gut-shot moose would have been unpleasant.

 

[scarfell]

Halal slaughter (done properly) shouldn't have been horrible. It's pretty much identical to how we used to slaughter sheep in australia.

Sharp knife, single cut to throat, bleed the animal out. Loss of consciousness in a few seconds, unless the wrong blood vessels are cut. It's how most butchers used to slaughter animals until very recently in most of Europe.

A blunt knife or someone lacking in confidence not cutting deep enough - yes, it could be highly unpleasant. Just like a gut-shot moose would have been unpleasant.

Depends, many "orthodox" Imams insist that the animal should be conscious when it is bled; I'vs also been told by several Muslims that they enjoy the flavour of meat flooded with adrenalin (also heard one non religous person state the same), that is a cultural rather than religious thing

In the UK it is illegal to bleed an unstunned animal, because there is no guarantee the animal will be unconscious in a few seconds, regardless of hitting the right artery (brain is active for at least 90 seconds without oxygen, and so suffering can continue)... Although it's not illegal to import meat from animals killed that way (as it'd also legal to import factory and battery farmed meat...I hope that ends one day soon)

 

[Robson Valley]

Skilful hunters take considerable pride in one single, well-placed kill shot. Embarassing to need to take a second shot.
Tracking a wounded moose into a swamp is not a task to look forward to.

Wild game of all sorts is very lean when compared with the meats of domesticated livestock.
Just need to learn to cook a little differently.

 

[Arya]

Apologies for lighthearted description of the Portuguese pig kill thing.
It wasn't a great experience and I was just a guest .
You are right , it was not done with the respect the animal deserves.

It was a boozy affair and more of a celebration than a actual ritual or ceremony ...

I have never tried moose, or reindeer , or big game like that , only venison but I will though... one day.

I don't eat much meat now, and I don't feel any worse for it.
I hate the idea of processed meat so I avoid it...but I'm a sucker for venison rabbit and lamb , and I'm sorry, I know they're cute and what not but ... I just love them !

I have never hunted . but if I did , it would have to be in the same manner as you described the folk there, where you are.

The respect that indigenous tribes had for all living things is admirable and appeals to me a great deal.
It just makes sense.
First Nations in the American Continent are a prime example . Their spiritual way of life and the relationship they had with their animals was/is beautiful, to me. It just feels right, as things should be.
I expect Nordic folk were exactly the same.

But I digress too...

The meat texture difference is an interesting point, and it shows that it does make a difference.
Thanks for confirming that, its very interesting.

I wish I had more time to get away and do things like learn butchering , skin tanning ,hunting , tracking, etc.
For now , these forums are great. Learning from other folk , their adventures,mistakes and their success.
Nothing like real experience , but it will do for now.
It helps that everyone likes sharing it!


Thanks for sharing your experiences and hope to see more of your adventures soon.

...oh and carvings ! ( They were really good , keep it up!)

��

PS- You eat Horse????!!! ��

No need to apologize to me for the description I didn´t compare my bad pig experience with your story.
I was just generally thinking about pigs being slaughtered, and that memory came to mind. Nothing to do with your story really

You will find hunters without respect for their pray anywhere in the world, but my general impression of our hunters is good.
I don´t think we are better than others, but the hunting tradition is still strong in the north, even today. More women are joining to, which I think is a good thing.
I myself have huge respect for the animals and the sacrifice one makes to bring food/meat so others can survive. The main reason I got interested in hunting in the first place is that I don´t like the whole idea of modern meat industry. I try to eat less meat (but a LOT of eggs), and the meat I eat should preferably come from animals that have had a life of their own. Felt sunshine on their bodies, done whatever is natural to them.
Hunting gives an opportunity to attain meat from animals like this, in addition to whatever animals one might have the opportunity to keep oneself.
I also think everyone that eat meat should take part in the process at least once, to even be worthy of eating it.
So, no trophy hunting for me, only food!

I am very grateful that I have people around me that is willing to share their knowledge!

Yes, I eat horse They are one of my favorites, and I am sorry we don´t eat more horse in Norway. Those Christians made sure to ruin that, back in the days....
In Iceland they´ve kept a lot of the old food traditions, even the use of horse meat. When I was in Iceland, just recently, they slaughtered two horses to serve our group because they knew that there was one woman in the group that had made a lot of inquiries and shown interest in the tradition of using horse meat. So it was a gesture to her as their guest. Horse tenderloin... My mouth waters just at the thought of it... *drooling*
People with Icelandic horses tend to be more accustomed to the whole idea of eating horse, compared to f.ex show jumpers. Quite many of them even have at least one skin on the wall (mane, tail and all) from one special horse in their life. Other find it a bit macabre
My old forestry teacher said it quite nicely once; "It is the final respect I can show my horse, to eat him, instead of letting his body go to waste".

 

[Arya]

Halal slaughter (done properly) shouldn't have been horrible. It's pretty much identical to how we used to slaughter sheep in australia.

Sharp knife, single cut to throat, bleed the animal out. Loss of consciousness in a few seconds, unless the wrong blood vessels are cut. It's how most butchers used to slaughter animals until very recently in most of Europe.

A blunt knife or someone lacking in confidence not cutting deep enough - yes, it could be highly unpleasant. Just like a gut-shot moose would have been unpleasant.

This is the only time I´ve been in the proximity of Halal butchery, and it was not nice. The pig screaming for several minutes. Even one minute is a long time when you know you are about to die.... I hope this is not a typical average Halal butchery.
Maybe that is not the norm of Halal, but they always say that the best meat is from an animal that has been screaming a lot. That is just disgusting, and makes me want to use their teeth as a necklace. Maybe even make matching earrings. A tiara on top would also be nice...

I was working my horse 100 m from the slaughter when it happened, and I am almost happy that I didn´t walk by while they were at it. I asked them afterwards what on earth they were doing, since the pig to so long to loose concience.
They just laughed and said that the screaming was good for the meat...

 

[Arya]

Skilful hunters take considerable pride in one single, well-placed kill shot. Embarassing to need to take a second shot.

Exactly!!!

 

[scarfell]

there are more than a few hunters that do not use single shot kills as a matter of course, I'm sure everyones seen the use of poisons to kill animals over several days, often with more than 1 shot (which means allot of stress as the animal is tracked). and also worth remembering they are prepared to dispatch an animal with a knife if the need arises, which although I've never been on a hunt like that myself, suggests to me its a fairly normal thing to do, rather than a rare occourance

its easy to get rose tinted about hunter gatherers; but in reality, stunning an animal and killing it while unconscious, is the norm in the west for a good reason; sure many tribes have (often more) respect for animals, but that doesnt change the fact its a brutal way to find food...even if it is a matter of survival for them

 

[Arya]

Of course, it is a brutal way to find food. There is no disputing that. Nature is brutal, no secret there. One can only strive to minimize the brutality, or go veggie.
I´d rather take a bullet any day than be eaten while still alive and conscious by many of the natural worlds predators though.

I know very little about poison, other than the one people use for mice and rats, but I guess that is used on animals like fox, wolves, etc?

 

[Robson Valley]

Read a little about the paleo hunting techniques for bison. Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump historical site.
Wanuskewin was occupied for 6,000 years and had it's very own buffalo jump.

Bad form to hunt moose with an AK-47. Simply bad form but no worse than an RPG.
You cannot expect me to poison an animal that I have every desire to eat. You try it first, I'll watch.
OK. Cripple a horse with gunshots. Walk up to that with a 3" knife and kill it by exsanguination. I'll watch.
One flip of a wounded bull moose head and that enormous boney antler rack will bust your head.

In my region, big game hunting is an issue of sustained yield.
Do it right and do it swiftly puts the best food on the table.

That the plant growth and the land base can support the animal population.
That's there's little likihood of disease from overcrowding or starvation.
So in Region 7 in BC, where I live, some 7,000 moose licenses are issued each year.
Some for every demographic segment of the population to keep a balance of males & females, old and young.

Habitat enhancement is such a simple thing to do. Suppose the forest co scrapes the regen veg. out of the logging road ditches for 5 miles.
Right down to the glacial clay and 10-20 feet wide. Suppose a few of us waltz into the XYZ Feed & Seed Company farm store and we each buy 5 lbs clover seed.
Then some nice day, we all go for a long walk.

Clay soil erosion stabilization. Nitrogen fixation. perrenial and self seeding.
Very attractive forage for big game and birds like grouse, ducks and geese.

I absolutely love herbivores. Right between the peas and the mashed potatoes.

 

[scarfell]

Poison is a common way of hunting in Africa and South America, of course you have to use the right poison and be careful in preperation, in Africa some poisons require that the areas around the arrows be discarded, dart frog poison is less of a problem (and quicker, but by accounts of humans being poisoned, very unpleasant)

 

[Nomad64]

This is the only time I´ve been in the proximity of Halal butchery, and it was not nice. The pig screaming for several minutes. Even one minute is a long time when you know you are about to die.... I hope this is not a typical average Halal butchery.

Given that the teachings in the Quran are very similar to those in the Old Testament/Torah when it comes to consuming and even touching pigs, I think it is reasonable to assume that this was not "a typical average Halal butchery"!

 

[Robson Valley]

OK. Darting monkeys is a little different from killing and butchering moose in Norway.
I suppose that when the monkey falls out of the tree, the fall is no problem but the sudden stop at the bottom is the killer.

Same for shooting Canada Geese. They cruise at 50-70 kph. I've clocked them at 90kph and they were pumping hard.
Field shooting over decoys, they sometimes split when they hit the ground. Really dead, really suddenly.

 

[Arya]

Nomad64
I was not really referring to the type of animal, but the method. Whether it was applied to a cow, pig, horse, chipmunk, rat, etc. does´t matter to me. What matters is how and why it was done.
I´ve worked with several muslims, and even have a muslim cousin... I know they don´t eat pigs.
I was later told that the method is a remnant of the time when that part of Spain was conquered by muslims. They are catholic now, but some traditions have remained with some of the people, unfortunately.