miss leading fungus information

[ruggedrich]

Hello

Thought i'd mention that in certain fungi identification books are quite missleading to say the least, Whilst out in Norway on one of our courses, food foraging, with clients, Came across the 'Coconut-scented Mill Cap of the russula family' which with only the pocket size book of the (collins gem 'Mushrooms') to hand, page 97 states the fungus 'Lactarius Glyciomus' is Edible, after being dubbled up with stomach ache for a week, got home to discover it was far from edible.....However after some further reserch found that in another of collins nature guide 'Mushrooms And Toadstools Of Britain & Europe, by Edmund Garnweidner, page 39 the 'Polyporus Squamosus' as we all know as Dryads Saddle (which to my mind is Edible) is Poisonous !! according to collins gem....., as i compared this to my other colins pocket size book, and said it was Edible a total contradiction.

Has anybody come across any more fungi contradictions, or shed any light on the above.

Richard

http://www.wildspiritbushcraft.co.uk

 

[Toddy]

Oooh you've opened a can of worms

It's a funny thing though, because not all folks react the same way to fungi. I think that's maybe where many of the problems in books arise.
I love chicken of the woods, which is widely advised as edible, but can end up with excruciating tummy ache from it others eat it with impunity gusto even

Good idea for a thread though.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[BorderReiver]

As Toddy points out,we're all different.

Don't forget the rules about trying wild foods for the first time.

Small piece on the tongue;after a while,chew but NOT swallow a small piece and so on.

Garlic is edible but my youngest is sensitive to it and gets very ill if she ingests it by accident.

The books probably source from different people who have different reactions to the same fungus.

 

[andy_e]

You can even have different reactions yourself to different samples of the same fungi from the same place. So you might find a good spot for a mushroom, eat it and be fine then next time you eat exactly the same mushroom from pretty much the same place and have an adverse reaction. Not so much a can of worms as a minefield - still I go mad for mushrooms! Only wish I knew enough to pick more widely.

 

[nicodiemus]

I love mushrooms, me, but i'm terrified of picking them wild.

 

[PIDDOCK]

Richard,

Interesting read and hope your feeling better now.

The thing I find with edible food guide books especially fungi guides is some fungi are listed as in edible not because they are but because they taste bad or are tough. Equally some are listed as edible but are only so under certain conditions for ect shaggy ink cap is edible but have a glass of wine or two and it suddenly becomes very inedible.

My advice is always cross reference any fungi collected with 2 or 3 books to be sure.

Also Richard, theres a link below your signature for a school (nice website) are you associated with that school? If so I would advise you to seek further training on fungi ident as an instructor who makes such an error cannot carry out his duty of care to his students while laid up ill and more so looks very unprofessional having to check in books to see if it is a edible species.

Thats not a critism I am just offering you what I hope will be helpful advise.

 

[xylaria]

Hello

Thought i'd mention that in certain fungi identification books are quite missleading to say the least, Whilst out in Norway on one of our courses, food foraging, with clients, Came across the 'Coconut-scented Mill Cap of the russula family' which with only the pocket size book of the (collins gem 'Mushrooms') to hand, page 97 states the fungus 'Lactarius Glyciomus' is Edible, after being dubbled up with stomach ache for a week, got home to discover it was far from edible.....However after some further reserch found that in another of collins nature guide 'Mushrooms And Toadstools Of Britain & Europe, by Edmund Garnweidner, page 39 the 'Polyporus Squamosus' as we all know as Dryads Saddle (which to my mind is Edible) is Poisonous !! according to collins gem....., as i compared this to my other colins pocket size book, and said it was Edible a total contradiction.

Has anybody come across any more fungi contradictions, or shed any light on the above.

Richard

http://www.wildspiritbushcraft.co.uk

the edmund garnweider book is the worst field guide i have every seen for european fungi, i tipexed out all the edibility info and re-wrote it.

I have never use a little gem for ID as I don't feel it is safe to id fungi for the pot with such little cross referencing. The little gems are good for trees, and some plants but not fungi.

As you know you can't learn fungi in a day , a week or ,a year. The best you can do is teach people how the kingdom is organised and how that is important to id each species. I learn something new each time I go out, and i can make mistakes, i have doing it for twenty years. It is a skill that requires practice. The ability to use a field guide is very important, i have never met anyone that I regard as an expert that would consider eating a fungi they haven't checked and double checked, by using field guides and/or internet. i find been able to google up a page full of pictures really helpful, and that technology is now coming on to phones. Anyone can make mistakes including field guides.

I am surprised you got belly ache for a week, but the mother in law is allergic to shop bought fungi is ill for a few days if she eats anything with fungi in it. Avoiding the certain killers is quite easy (amanitas, cortinarias). But when I first started some field guides stated brown roll rim was edible but may cause allergic reaction, now it classed as deadly poisonous. Information changes over time, like I have eaten helvella crispa for years, and then last year I find out it contains a compound that causes kidney failure if not cooked. I can't find any cases it causing poisoning, but then I can't say it is safe to eat (i still eat it but I don't give it to anybody else).

There is no tolerance or taste test for fungi. just don't over eat what you are not used to, and the remember the wisest thing you can say is 'I don't know'. Personally I don't like teaching what a certain edible fungi looks like, i much perfer to teach the ID skills needed for the kingdom. Then the student has to understand the subject not the just get a the idea that Oh i can find a blewit i don't have to know what a purple cortinaria looks like.

I can think of numerous contraditions.

 

[pumbaa]

A friend of mine found a mushroom book under the seat of a car he bought . I cant remember the name of it , but it was written by an old hippie with a passion for a certain type of mushroom (if you get what i mean!). I only had a quick scan through it and passed it off as yet another waste of paper . In hind site it may make an interesting read as it does suggest what poisoning effects (although under the name of trip) you would get from most of our poisonuss fungi . I think it would be interesting to look at the poisonus thing from a different angle . I had always avoided even touching fly agaric or anything similar , But this guy eats them !! Quite a few tribal peoples intoxicate them selves with different poisons too , although generally for spiritual reasons . Quite intresting
Pumbaa

 

[andy_e]

I believe you have to bake Amanita Muscaria and Pantherina at ~180F to break down the Ibotenic acid which is the main poisonous (though generally not fatally so) component. This process leaves Muscimol the primary active component - still, judging from "trip" reports it's not something that I'd take lightly but it does go to show that prejudice can equally cause a fungus to be labelled as poisonous.

I too had read reports of Siberian Shamen using Fly Agaric for ceremonial purposes and wondered how they could eat an otherwise poisonous mushroom, so I did a bit of digging around and found the above information. There was also a TV programme in the mid-90's, I think - Sacred Weeds - that had an episode in which a small group of volunteers tested Fly Agaric's effects.

 

[xylaria]

Deliberataly poisoning yourself with non-lethal toxic fungi, can educate your body to recognise toxic fungi by priming a gag reflex when swallowing. This would be a very important skill for shamans to have as it is a way recognising stuff you shouldn't eat as the tightness in throat would act as a warning. This is practiced safely in cultures where the knowledge to use 'power plants' is intact. Modern britain is not one of those cultures, we can't drink alcohol in moderation, and we are trashing the planet. We are not responsible enough for that knowledge.

 

[andy_e]

Xylaria: That is true generally speaking, in that same way that although this forum is populated with those that have a deep respect for the outdoors and for "primitive" skills/crafts, it's not a trait that we share with the populace at large.

Being responsible in my mind is a measure of respect, whether it be for our shared interest here or for other practices of cultures around the world. This can also be interpreted in the context of this thread to mean that with fungi (and all wild foods) we must have respect enough to gain the knowledge necessary to confidently and responsibly harvest what's out there.

The study of cultural use of entheogens is an interesting subject and one I find difficult to separate from "bushcraft" as a whole.

 

[ruggedrich]

Hello

Yes i Have to agree, Your right in everything you said, as other instructor and i both ate some but he was fine and i was not.
I'm not to bad when it comes to fungi, is just the fact that the book was so misleading, when, it stated edible.
Guess its another learning curve shame that i always seem to learn the hard way, HA HA

And yes we are a bushcraft school

Take care

http://www.wildspiritbushcraft.co.uk

 

[Jodie]

Sacred Weeds is on YouTube and seems to be about Salvia divinorum

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oAv0R6gtfk

Parts 2 through 6 will gradually be revealed to you through the medium of YouTube

YouTube has a goodly amount of ethnobotany stuff (recommend Mark Plotkin and Wade
Davis - see also his talk at TED.com) as well as the trippy, 'getting baked' variety. It
appeals to the pharmacologist observer in me

Wade Davis on the ethnosphere
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/69
"like being shot out of a rifle barrel lined with baroque paintings and landing on a sea of
electricity"

 

[xylaria]

Hello

Yes i Have to agree, Your right in everything you said, as other instructor and i both ate some but he was fine and i was not.
I'm not to bad when it comes to fungi, is just the fact that the book was so misleading, when, it stated edible.
Guess its another learning curve shame that i always seem to learn the hard way, HA HA

And yes we are a bushcraft school

Take care

http://www.wildspiritbushcraft.co.uk

Off the top of my head fungi that are edible but may cause problems in certain circumstances, or to certain people:

Common ink cap C. atramentarius ; well known toxic with alcohol, other ink cap are supposedly fine.

cloud cap clitocybe nubularus; causes vomiting in some individuals when mixed with alcohol.

honey fungus armillaria spp ; cause gastric problems in some have been recorded as causing hallucenations. A. tabescens is more likely to cause problems than other honey fungus. Must be cooked.

turban fungus gyromitra esculenta ; Deadly poisonous, can be rendered edible when boiled for 10 minutes.

Giant funnel cap, causes gastric problem in some

Blewits, causes gastric problem in some. should be cooked

lurid boletes should be cooked. Boletus erythropus is poisonous raw.

Parasol mushroom, Lepiota procera edible and good, should be cooked have been recorded as causing symptoms of nerve poisoning.

Morels piosonous to dogs, should be cooked can cause vomiting in people. Tastes amazing!

helvella crispa Taste like morels contian small amounts of the toxin that is in turban fungus. May cause birth defects. I can't find any cases of any problems.

Clitocybe clavipes toxic with alchol

Tricholomopsis rutilans [plums and custard} taste terrible may be generally toxic eaten widely in eastern europe.

Other myths about fungi that i have read in places that should be better researched.
you shouldn't pick them if you don't know what you are doing: No you should not EAT fungi unless you know what you are doing, picking them is how you get to know what they are.
Magic mushrooms contain LSD : (Courtecuisse) They don't they contain 4-phosphoryloxy-N, N-dimethyl tryptamine which is no chemical relation to LSD. Both are both Class A drugs and can lead to "acid casualties" if mis-dosed or taken regulary without moderation.
Atropine is a antidote to poisoning by fly agaric I read that in A&E on a poster giving advice to doctors. Atropine makes ibotenic acid poisoning much worse. Atropine is an antidote to muscarine not muscanol. If I ever need to attend A&E cause i have eaten something that doesn't agree with me, I will write on piece of paper what i have eaten, and instuctions to contact the poison unit or I will sue.

 

[Wayland]

Other myths about fungi that i have read in places that should be better researched.
you shouldn't pick them if you don't know what you are doing: No you should NOT EAT fungi unless you know what you are doing, picking them is how you get to know what they are.

Suggested edit needed in blue

 

[xylaria]

Thanks mate. :You_Rock_

 

[nicodiemus]

good advice on the noting down of what you ate and instructions to contact the poisons unit. very good advice!