Lucky Diver, Dangerous Shooter in Sussex

[carabao]

Read this yesterday in the local rag in Sussex. Very lucky driver, a really dangerous shooter loose in Sussex.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10117487.Lucky_driver_grazed_by_bullet.

Maybe, I'm being harsh on the shooter, but surely he checked back drop when he fired, or he was just really unlucky and this was a fluke accident. Or was it dodgy poachers, Christmas is just next week was someone hoping to bag some venison for their dinner or make a few shekels?
Or was something more sinister, and it was intended, like the Essex boys shooting in the 90s.

 

[Kepis]

Reads like the typical over dramatised drivel the Angus is leaning towards these days, im beginning to wonder if they are owned by the Daily Mail with some of their reporting

 

[carabao]

Very true, I stopped buying a year or two back when one of its scribes wrote that a Guardsman's mum was seeking 15 minutes of fame by protesting for an inquiry in to his death. Was reading it in the barbers. They said the round was in the footwell sounds like the round was out of steam, so could it have been fired some distance away ? Is there travellers up that way ?

 

[widu13]

Great. Just what the sport needs...a knee jerk GUESS of what happened, and then a misguided post based on NO information other than guesswork.

I don't see how this is bushcraft related?

Anyhow, I know the officer personally and no way would she know the calibre of a spent round! The round even if it were a .243 even at the edge of it's range hitting a car would most likely penetrate is, or being that deer rounds are soft nosed would be an unrecognisable mess.

More likely is that it was a .22LR renowned for ricochets Whilst we are guessing; it's just as likely a version of events as the ones reported, that a sportsman has fired at a legitimate target which has ricocheted off of a bone and sent the round off course.

We could spend LOTS of time GUESSING what happened here!!

 

[widu13]

Very true, I stopped buying a year or two back when one of its scribes wrote that a Guardsman's mum was seeking 15 minutes of fame by protesting for an inquiry in to his death. Was reading it in the barbers. They said the round was in the footwell sounds like the round was out of steam, so could it have been fired some distance away ? Is there travellers up that way ?

Plenty of travellers there, but not with .243. Their favourite rifles are .22LR with which they take plenty of animals.

 

[santaman2000]

...Anyhow, I know the officer personally and no way would she know the calibre of a spent round! The round even if it were a .243 even at the edge of it's range hitting a car would most likely penetrate is, or being that deer rounds are soft nosed would be an unrecognisable mess....

A good ballistics investigator can take even a deformed hollowpoint that's hit a solid target and still determe the caliber. AND evem what gun it was fired from if they have a sample to compare it too.

 

[widu13]

A good ballistics investigator can take even a deformed hollowpoint that's hit a solid target and still determe the caliber. AND evem what gun it was fired from if they have a sample to compare it too.

Mate, trust me I am VERY aware of what can be done. I can tell you with 100% certainty that that round has not been forensically examined and that the officer whilst a cracking copper would struggle in identifying a .22LR from a .308!

 

[santaman2000]

Mate, trust me I am VERY aware of what can be done. I can tell you with 100% certainty that that round has not been forensically examined and that the officer whilst a cracking copper would struggle in identifying a .22LR from a .308!

Fair enough if the round hasn't been properly examined. However the 2 rounds you chose for an example would be easy enough for anybody to tell apart just by holding in their hands. There's a great difference between the feel of 30-40 grains (a 22 LR) and 150 grains (one of the minimum bullets for a 308)

 

[widu13]

Fair enough if the round hasn't been properly examined. However the 2 rounds you chose for an example would be easy enough for anybody to tell apart just by holding in their hands. There's a great difference between the feel of 30-40 grains (a 22 LR) and 150 grains (one of the minimum bullets for a 308)

Exactly my point!

 

[santaman2000]

Exactly my point!

I don't follow you. Your point was that it would be difficult to distinguish between the two (or at least that's what you said) My counter was that it would be easy.

 

[Mesquite]

I don't follow you. Your point was that it would be difficult to distinguish between the two (or at least that's what you said) My counter was that it would be easy.

I think what he's trying to say is that the officer investigating has no knowledge of ballistics and firearms so wouldn't be able to identify the bullet beyond the fact it was a either a large bullet or a small one...

 

[santaman2000]

I think what he's trying to say is that the officer investigating has no knowledge of ballistics and firearms so wouldn't be able to identify the bullet beyond the fact it was a either a large bullet or a small one...

I understood that. Rather I was pointing to the 2 calibers he chose to illustrate it.

 

[Damascus]

Another point here, it was said a killing range of a mile, that would put the .22lr in the frame, .243 you are looking at approx 4 mile.
The round going through the window and being found spent, this is a good supporting evidence to say this was most probably .22lr, the centre fire .243 would being copper jacketed probably gone straight through. Bullets deformed or not, a blind man could tell them apart by touch alone let alone weight.

Another, incident dramatised by the press to make it sound worse than it is, please don't confuse the fact a stray round causing damage and injury, it is a dangerous incident in its own right, why gloss it up!

 

[carabao]

Great. Just what the sport needs...a knee jerk GUESS of what happened, and then a misguided post based on NO information other than guesswork.

I don't see how this is bushcraft related?

Anyhow, I know the officer personally and no way would she know the calibre of a spent round! The round even if it were a .243 even at the edge of it's range hitting a car would most likely penetrate is, or being that deer rounds are soft nosed would be an unrecognisable mess.

More likely is that it was a .22LR renowned for ricochets Whilst we are guessing; it's just as likely a version of events as the ones reported, that a sportsman has fired at a legitimate target which has ricocheted off of a bone and sent the round off course.

We could spend LOTS of time GUESSING what happened here!!

I'm far from knee jerking, I found the story pretty sad that with out true facts, the journalist and editors feels he has enough to print.

Why is this not bushcraft related, there is many gun owners on here who may find this of interest.

Why would a Police officer know the difference of calibres, unless she is ballistic trained, isn't that what forensics are for. I can tell you the difference between 9 mm, 5.56, 7.62 NATO, 7.62 AK short and long, why that's what I worked with, if she worked daily with gun crime then she would know of course. Example of penetration I had a Ex Gurkha guard smacked by a 7.62 PKM round it hit slap bang in centre of his forehead and bedded in under his skin, why it had bounced up of the ground the firing point was approximately 700 metres, I had my supposedly B6 land cruiser hit by a Pom as well from about the same distance and it penetrated through my door and out the rear passenger and his door.

sorry for posting what I thought might be interesting to some

 

[Vulpes]

Plenty of travellers there, but not with .243. Their favourite rifles are .22LR with which they take plenty of animals.

Travellers also like crossbows...the illegal use of which has generated a lot of stigma surrounding what is an awesome target shooter.

 

[santaman2000]

...Why would a Police officer know the difference of calibres, unless she is ballistic trained, isn't that what forensics are for. I can tell you the difference between 9 mm, 5.56, 7.62 NATO, 7.62 AK short and long, why that's what I worked with....

You (or I) could tell a 7.62 diameter bullet. BUT!!! Could you tell if it had been loaded in a .308 (NATO) case or a 30-06? Or a 30-30? Or any other 30 caliber rifle? Most of them take the same bullet.

As for why would a police officer be able to tell; well, why wouldn't she be able to tell? It ain't rocket science.

Edit to add: I better stipulate that I'm being facetious with the latter comment. Most cops here wouldn't really be able to tell unless it was a caliber they were used to themselves (whether through training or hunting/sport experience) It's not likely anyone would anywhere under those circumstances. But almost anyone should be able to distinguish between a 22LR and a centerfire cartridge easily enough.

 

[santaman2000]

Another point here, it was said a killing range of a mile, that would put the .22lr in the frame, .243 you are looking at approx 4 mile.
The round going through the window and being found spent, this is a good supporting evidence to say this was most probably .22lr....

True but if I read the article correctly, they don'y really know how far it had traveled. They just made a random (and incorrect comment about the lethal range of a .243.

 

[Andy BB]

You (or I) could tell a 7.62 diameter bullet. BUT!!! Could you tell if it had been loaded in a .308 (NATO) case or a 30-06? Or a 30-30? Or any other 30 caliber rifle? Most of them take the same bullet.

As for why would a police officer be able to tell; well, why wouldn't she be able to tell? It ain't rocket science.

Edit to add: I better stipulate that I'm being facetious with the latter comment. Most cops here wouldn't really be able to tell unless it was a caliber they were used to themselves (whether through training or hunting/sport experience) It's not likely anyone would anywhere under those circumstances. But almost anyone should be able to distinguish between a 22LR and a centerfire cartridge easily enough.

To be fair, you're assuming a knowledge of firearms by the average Brit bobby that isn't there!

 

[santaman2000]

To be fair, you're assuming a knowledge of firearms by the average Brit bobby that isn't there!

TBH I'm assuming a knowledge of firearms by the average video gamer or tv watcher.

 

[Toddy]

Not here.
Seriously, most of us wouldn't have a clue.
It's over twenty years since I held a handgun, and more since I last shot a rifle other than an airgun.
Most folks in the UK do not have any access, or feel the necessity to have access, to a handgun. We couldn't even tell a real one from a fake.
It just does not compute.
Tv programmes and films use props; we know that, so they're not real, iimmc, and video games are cartoonised.

This forum, and others like it are kind of unique in that many members do shoot; the general population doesn't, and even here most of us would struggle to specify a bullet size.

cheers,
Toddy