Lost Letters ( English )

[TeeDee]

Stumbled across this , I thought some here maybe interested.

The Fascinating History of Ten Letters That Are No Longer Part of the American English Alphabet

Austin McConnell, a man who knows words, humorously explained through animation the fascinating history of ten different letters that are no longer part

laughingsquid.com

 

[oldtimer]

I'm concerned about how the letter "T" is disappearing from spoken English when elision is replaced by a glottal stop. If it disappears from written English too, I won't be able to write my surname and my grandson won't be able to write his first name either.

And you will become EeDee! Doesn't have the same ring about it somehow, does it?

 

[TeeDee]

I'm concerned about how the letter "T" is disappearing from spoken English when elision is replaced by a glottal stop. If it disappears from written English too, I won't be able to write my surname and my grandson won't be able to write his first name either.

And you will become EeDee! Doesn't have the same ring about it somehow, does it?

Indeed.

And No , EeDee would ruin the reasoning behind my name somewhat.

 

[santaman2000]

I’m thinking about when the letter K disappears. Will my name become “Celly?”

 

[Toddy]

I'm concerned about how the letter "T" is disappearing from spoken English when elision is replaced by a glottal stop. If it disappears from written English too, I won't be able to write my surname and my grandson won't be able to write his first name either.

And you will become EeDee! Doesn't have the same ring about it somehow, does it?

I think you're looking at it the wrong way.
The Lowland Scots use the glottal stop, but we still use the T too.
It's added not removed, iimmc ?

The other one still in use in the British Isles is the dd that's mostly seen in Welsh, but in Scots we used the lower case z as that when it was next to d.
The old name for the town I was born in is Cadzow, the old folks said it as Cadjeow.
When it's used in the surname Menzies, it's properly pronounce Mingus.

Language evolves

 

[TeeDee]

Language evolves

Its the possible enforcement and mandate of 'new' language and terms that concerns me.

 

[Broch]

I can't watch Matt Baker - it infuriates me (for no logical reason I admit) that he doesn't pronounce a single T when he's talking.

 

[santaman2000]

Language does evolve. It also mutates. I could be wrong but I think the only language that comes close to English in having so many variations is probably Spanish.

 

[Robbi]

I can't watch Matt Baker - it infuriates me (for no logical reason I admit) that he doesn't pronounce a single T when he's talking.

100% bugs the life out of me

and also the "f" instead of "Th" as in Fink instead of Think, Fursdee instead of Thursday !! Aaaagh !

it's not Free !! it's THREE !!

 

[santaman2000]

100% bugs the life out of me

and also the "f" instead of "Th" as in Fink instead of Think, Fursdee instead of Thursday !! Aaaagh !

it's not Free !! it's THREE !!

 

[Robbi]

No need for that Denis !!

 

[santaman2000]

No need for that Denis !!

LOL. My work here is done.

 

[TeeDee]

100% bugs the life out of me

and also the "f" instead of "Th" as in Fink instead of Think, Fursdee instead of Thursday !! Aaaagh !

it's not Free !! it's THREE !!

I required elocution lessons to cure me of that one. Not easy unless you are picked up on it at an early age.

 

[Toddy]

My increasing deafness, and no longer working or speaking to be heard in public, meant that I rather lost the ability to hear where my voice was pitched.
I am naturally quietly spoken, but I had learned to 'speak out'. It reached the stage that I was almost silent, and I was sent to see a speech therapist.....who rapidly discovered that I had three languages
Local clearly spoken Scots of the old variety, not the Glaswegian kind. Politely spoken English with a Scottish accent, and 'received pronunciation' that's still there from my childhood education and my WRAF officer Mother's intent that I would learn to speak properly.

In none of those does Th become f.
In the first one the glottal stop does come out, as well as skipped vowels. "Y'see", instead of, "You see", and the classic, "Thoucht", instead of the crisply hard t in, "Thought", or the deeper vowel of the RP.

This cannot be uncommon, right across the country local accents and speech gives way to a clearer English when meeting others from outwith our own locality.
At the end of the day so long as we are mutually comprehensible, it keeps it interesting

I love hearing regional accents, even if nowadays they're a real struggle.

I do like the quote about English (language) lurking in dark alleys to beat up other languages and rifle through their pockets for spare vocabulary
I think the original James Nicol quote is maybe not quite pc enough for here.

 

[TeeDee]

 

[Toddy]

I do take the point the article is making, but I think it misses the bit that my earlier comment mentioned.
Mutual comprehension is not to be under-rated.

I know, without a shred of a doubt, that when I'm speaking normally then an awful lot of folks on this forum just wouldn't understand me, and my accent is not heavy. Again, that's true for other accents right across these isles.
I'm pretty sure that's why RP became so prevalent during WW2 and afterwards. It was the language of public service, it was clear enough that all others could actually hear what was being said. Now it's seen as somewhat pretentious but it's clarity was the real focus, not some snobbish intent.

So, changing accent isn't always to, 'create a better impression', it's often just to be clearly understood by others who do not share the same linguistic background.

The monoglots who only speak RP might always be understood, but they lack the social dimension of familiarity of shared backgrounds, family, locality, language and it's concomitant emotional associations etc., and now often become isolated in a shrinking strata of society.

My mother's good intent that I only speak RP would leave me terribly out of step/place with my friends and neighbours here. The only time I really use it nowadays is when I meet with an unfamiliar Doctor for whom English is not a first language. It helps overcome the accent differences and reduces confusion.

To the OP's point about losing letters though; I wonder if perhaps it's not so much loss but a slow slide into change ?

 

[TeeDee]

Sorry ,, maybe my posting was confusing.

The article was dropped to me last night from a friend who was advised by his previous employer ( before being made redundant ) to " drop the bumpkin accent ".

I was merely picking out this line from your text. No axe to grind.

" I love hearing regional accents, even if nowadays they're a real struggle. "

 

[Broch]

My first job on leaving school (having failed my A levels) was as a farm labourer in West Yorkshire. The only way I could get any of the other workers to understand me was to put on my broadest Yorkshire accent.

As kids we moved around a fair bit so got into the habit of slipping into local accents to 'get on'. My brother, unfortunately, continued to do it into adulthood and would go into an Irish bar in London and instantly be 'Irish' - I would walk out

I like regional accents - some annoy me to be sure, but I love the variations.

You have got to be a bit careful though Toddy; when you say "I don't mind something …." meaning you don't remember it, it can sound like you don't mind about it (just teasing).

 

[Wayland]

I still use a couple of those when writing about the Norse Gods, Óðinn and Þórr for example.

Some of them descended from Runic inscriptions.

 

[Oliver G]

Accents are fascinating to me, I grew up on army garrisons and have mostly lived in the south so I have a fairly neutral southern /west country accent, there were lads at my boarding school who affected the London/Jamaican accent so much that it stuck with them despite it not being present other than in the media at school.

As for letters I've never got my head around why people say "ye" when you see ye oldee shoppe my understanding is that it was a thorn pronounced "th" though I suppose it's similar to the Irish "or" just becoming "o".