Long and thin or short and fat?

[Rain man]

Like many bushcraft kit addicts, I rushed out and purchased a zebra billly beacuse they got a lot of attention because of Mr Mears.
But I don't really like it.
It's nice and everything, but the whole little plate thing in the lid didn't impress me, the handle doesn't fold flat, the lid rattles if you take the plate out, and if you don't it weighs even more. I know there are work-arounds for all that and its still a good piece of steel, but I think I found better.
The Vargo Ti-Lite 1.3 L Non-Stick Titanium Pan, I like it because its wider and flatter that the zebra, I prefer cooking in a pot this shape, its easier to see what you're doing. It's also far lighter.
My doubts lie with a post I saw - somewhere - where I read that a tall thin pot like the Zebra billy is a better shape to cook with over a fire compared to a wider flatter pot.
Is there any truth in this? Were they quoting some ancient lore or just their opinion?
So please anyone with vast knowledge of camp fire physics help me out before I make my second very billy mistake.

 

[JonathanD]

I really like mine and use them alot. However I use my Titan 1100 alot more when on my own.

A wider flatter pot is the best for over the fire. The zebra is useful as it can be put in the side of the fire also.

 

[Rain man]

Ooh also If nobody has any real problem with that type of billy I wonder if you own either the
- Vargo Ti-Lite 1.3 litre
- Alpkit MytiPot

Am a little torn. I like the simplicity of the Vargo but the lid actually looks useful on the Mytipot.

 

[phill_ue]

It depends how you use the billy, skinny and tall vs. fat and dumpy is a close match, but it depends on how you use your billy the most that should influence your choice. Short and fat will boil water faster over the fire than a skinny tall pot, but are you really in that much of a rush? In high winds, placing the billy on the ground and building the fire around the billy will result in a rapid boil, but it would make sense that a tall skinny billy would work better than the short fat one.

I think it is a thing you needn't worry to much about and just go with what you want. Both will work well and you can do the same things in both. I doubt there would be much of a difference to be honest, it'd probably take lab conditions to really figure out the difference but people who worry about how fast it will boil water are hanging on to their real world habits of rushing about and wanting rapid results. I like to take my time, if the billy takes a few minutes more to boil who cares?

 

[Rain man]

Fantastic, thank you. I was wracking my brains to think of reasons why a certain shape would be no good over a fire. I'm not bothered over boil times either so great, I get to buy something Titanium yay! (secret fetish I think) Just gotta choose which one.

 

[Peter_t]

i reccon short and fat is probably easier to cook in. more efficient? more surface area so i gess so also you could probably fry with it.

tbh im not that worried, i use the billy from the swedish army trangia which isn't the most practicle thing to cook in but i get by fine and i like it


pete

 

[andythecelt]

It's all about surface area. For cooking with a suspended pot over a fire the greater the surface area of the bottom the better for conducting heat so a short, wide pot is theoretically better. For just shoving in the side of the fire a taller pot is theoretically going to present a greater surface area and heat faster. I've used both and while I've certainly never timed anything I've never thought 'that pot seems to be taking a while to boil'. On a fire it always boils quickly enough for me at any rate. I'd say the weight advantages of Titanium far outweigh any advantages or disadvantages of shape.

Took too long answering that! Phill beat me to it!

 

[phill_ue]

i reccon short and fat is probably easier to cook in. more efficient? more surface area so i gess so also you could probably fry with it.

tbh im not that worried, i use the billy from the swedish army trangia which isn't the most practicle thing to cook in but i get by fine and i like it


pete

I can fry in 14 cm zebra billy. Plus, I don't like to superheat the contents as that is when they tend to burn at the bottom and stick. The real thing you need to be looking at is the heat of your fire.

The Swedish army billy is really good, the frying pan isn't massive but you can do some bacon and pop it in the big can to keep warm high over the fire whilst you do your sausages!

I really think the issue is learning to use the item you have efficiently and correctly.

 

[Peter_t]

iv heard titanium is a poor heat conductor... just to complicate things

pete

 

[Peter_t]

I can fry in 14 cm zebra billy. Plus, I don't like to superheat the contents as that is when they tend to burn at the bottom and stick. The real thing you need to be looking at is the heat of your fire.

The Swedish army billy is really good, the frying pan isn't massive but you can do some bacon and pop it in the big can to keep warm high over the fire whilst you do your sausages!

I really think the issue is learning to use the item you have efficiently and correctly.

the same amount of stew in a wider billy would be heated more evenly than a tall skinny one so easier to cook in without burning the bottom.

i once cooked breakfast for 4 people in my trangia lid, only fitting two sausages in at once isn't ideal! haha its better if im camping solo or just about ok for two.

pete

 

[phill_ue]

the same amount of stew in a wider billy would be heated more evenly than a tall skinny one so easier to cook in without burning the bottom.

i once cooked breakfast for 4 people in my trangia lid, only fitting two sausages in at once isn't ideal! haha its better if im camping solo or just about ok for two.

pete

You'll only burn the bottom if the heat is too fierce! I "stew" a stew, the clue is in the name! I once made a stew in the morning and left it over a low fire for the whole day and ate it in the evening. I carried out other activities throughout the day, it wasn't burnt and nothing was stuck to the bottom of the 14cm Zebra billy. If everybody carried the same billy then all sorts could be made as each person cooked one particular part of the main meal. I am not convinced that one type is any better than another.

 

[Dano]

these Zebra Billy tins seem way over priced to me, I just use one of these http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/156/p2187679_b.jpg (just google Indian Tiffin) the cost a couple of quid if that and come in all shapes and sizes, perhaps I should start importing them as there are millions here

 

[sapper1]

I prefer to use a tall/thin pot for water and stew as i think they cook better over a low heat.I also use a frying pan thats fat/short for frying,mainly because if your frying then whatever you're cooking doesn't tend to suffer from evaporation.

 

[FGYT]

ive moved to a Zebra (from mess tin ) and if you understand its limitation of burning thick stews etc ateh bottom if your not carful its fine

i like it cause it makes a nice package with a drainer ive found for the 12cm one i also have the 14cm which is a good size my mate has the 10cm (to small ) and the 16cm the 12 and 16 are what we usually use as out individual pots
then we also take a dutch oven when car bushcrafting which is short n fat

im also going to resurect my mini Wok i used to carry a lot and complement the 12cm billy as yo ucan stirfry most anything etc

sorry guys dont to backpacking by the gram

ATB

Duncan

 

[helixpteron]

I'm not bothered over boil times either so great, I get to buy something Titanium yay! (secret fetish I think) Just gotta choose which one.

You are not alone!

There's a lot to be said for buying titanium gear, following on from the fun of research, deal spotting and decision making (ie, choosing which of all the one's you want, you'll actually settle on buying... Before deciding to buy even more!).

As the owner of a veritable Catering Corps of titanium cookware, mugs, plates and utensils, I can honestly say that titanium is magnetic (to me!).

Got some nice aluminium cookware too, but that's for vehicle based use.

 

[durulz]

Like most, I have a few different cooking pots/pans.
Some are tall and thin. Some are short and fat.
They all work, to be honest.
It all depends on what I want to cook - a pan for cooking bacon, a pot for boiling water. And so on.
If you've found one that works for you, then that's the best utensil there is. Doesn't matter what others say is the best for cooking. Truth is, the best cooking utensil is the one you like the best!

 

[General Lee Speaking]

Would adapting a MiTyPot somehow into a hanging pot over a fire be a possibility so that it can be used in all circumstances? I've been thinking about this and whether it would be stable not having as low a centre of gravity as a taller billy. Has anyone actually done this successfully or have any ideas on how you might do this?

 

[Trev]

Hi ,
Shot in the dark here , could you attach a copy of the whatsit ( thing that the handle hooks into ) to the opposite side . Then instead of the handle , use them to attach two hook ended bails ( two crossed bails should make it more stable ?? , so it swings rather than tips )
Cheers , Trev .

 

[Highbinder]

One problem I see with those Ti pots is you can't hang them over a fire. Also, £40 for a pot is a bit OTT for me personally even if they weigh 1/3 of the equivilant steel pot. I'll be looking to buy a zebra billy from the point of view it'll pack well with my coleman gas cannister and unit, better than a wider shallower pot.

 

[Dormouse]

I think the ubiquitousness of taller, thinner pots has more to do with the lightweight and narrow stoves now available to backpackers. Wider, traditional shaped pans are just not stable on them.
They also have better packability in a backpack.

Most of the manufacturers do not have open fire cooking in mind. (I mean proper bonfire cooking rather than contained woodstoves).