little neck knife
- Thread starter mark.177
- Start date
I think its fair to say you have a promising future as a knife maker ahead of you! Very very tidy, mate.
I'd love to see a good wip thread from you too, to get a feel of what you use and how you work etc.
And is the grind convex? And what heat treat guide are you using for the file steel? I understand all files are different and never really labled with their id.
I'd love to see a good wip thread from you too, to get a feel of what you use and how you work etc.
And is the grind convex? And what heat treat guide are you using for the file steel? I understand all files are different and never really labled with their id.
thanks Samon, its a flat grind. heat treat was trial and error with files, i use rapeseed oil heated to about 85c first and if they dont harden salty water near boiling gets them hard. most seem to do fine in pre heated rapeseed oil though.
have found the best method to temper files is a blow tourch... first though i put an edge on the blade, that way i can see when it stops crumbling and i know its tempered enough to keep a good edge. depending on blade thickness they seem to need around 350-400c evenly along the back of the blade for about 15-20 minutes... if they still crumble along the cutting edge when sharpened i give them another 15 minutes. it seems to work as all the file knifes i've made so far take a fantastic edge and hold it well...
The knife looks well mate 
Your Heat treatment mentioned here baffles the hell out of me though.
Firstly, hardening/annealing temp is not going be below 800c, no matter what steel it is, that is the temp needed to make carbon do its thing. There are no alternative methods, there is no compromising on temperature. From what you said, that blade is either unhardened, or tempered to a point where its basically unhardened. Blade thickness has nothing to do with tempering temperature , only hold time at the correct temp is what matters, the thicker the steel, the longer you need to hold it at temp, but thats measure in inches.. From what you have said here, you have done every single thing incorrectly.
Crumbling? Explain that one for me mate please. How are you getting crumbling? you haven't heated it high enough to get any.........Think 1000C almost before any steel should start crumbling (and thats only carbons)
Also, NEVER grind the blade to its edge prior to heat treatment. NEVER.
The process is as follows...
Anneal the file.... (850C ish and hold for a minute. let cool as slowly as possible.)
Do the work that needs doing ( shape, grind, and drill)
Harden at 850C (roughly bright red to orange in a dark room)
Quench in warmed oil ( only warmed)
Check for straightness before its cold, bend back to shape if needed, BEFORE ITS COLD, preferably before it gets to " i can hold it with my bare hands" territory.
Temper roughly at 240c( this should give you a workable temper) for 1 hr MAX
Then, when done, finish off the grinding and the blade finish ( 90% should be done prior to hardening, both grinding and finishing..)
Attach handle.
Make sheath.
Job done!!!
Your Heat treatment mentioned here baffles the hell out of me though.
Firstly, hardening/annealing temp is not going be below 800c, no matter what steel it is, that is the temp needed to make carbon do its thing. There are no alternative methods, there is no compromising on temperature. From what you said, that blade is either unhardened, or tempered to a point where its basically unhardened. Blade thickness has nothing to do with tempering temperature , only hold time at the correct temp is what matters, the thicker the steel, the longer you need to hold it at temp, but thats measure in inches.. From what you have said here, you have done every single thing incorrectly.
Crumbling? Explain that one for me mate please. How are you getting crumbling? you haven't heated it high enough to get any.........Think 1000C almost before any steel should start crumbling (and thats only carbons)
Also, NEVER grind the blade to its edge prior to heat treatment. NEVER.
The process is as follows...
Anneal the file.... (850C ish and hold for a minute. let cool as slowly as possible.)
Do the work that needs doing ( shape, grind, and drill)
Harden at 850C (roughly bright red to orange in a dark room)
Quench in warmed oil ( only warmed)
Check for straightness before its cold, bend back to shape if needed, BEFORE ITS COLD, preferably before it gets to " i can hold it with my bare hands" territory.
Temper roughly at 240c( this should give you a workable temper) for 1 hr MAX
Then, when done, finish off the grinding and the blade finish ( 90% should be done prior to hardening, both grinding and finishing..)
Attach handle.
Make sheath.
Job done!!!
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The knife looks well mate
Your Heat treatment mentioned here baffles the hell out of me though.
Firstly, hardening/annealing temp is not going be below 800c, no matter what steel it is, that is the temp needed to make carbon do its thing. There are no alternative methods, there is no compromising on temperature. From what you said, that blade is either unhardened, or tempered to a point where its basically unhardened. Blade thickness has nothing to do with tempering temperature , only hold time at the correct temp is what matters, the thicker the steel, the longer you need to hold it at temp, but thats measure in inches.. From what you have said here, you have done every single thing incorrectly.
Crumbling? Explain that one for me mate please. How are you getting crumbling? you haven't heated it high enough to get any.........Think 1000C almost before any steel should start crumbling (and thats only carbons)
Also, NEVER grind the blade to its edge prior to heat treatment. NEVER.
The process is as follows...
Anneal the file.... (850C ish and hold for a minute. let cool as slowly as possible.)
Do the work that needs doing ( shape, grind, and drill)
Harden at 850C (roughly bright red to orange in a dark room)
Quench in warmed oil ( only warmed)
Check for straightness before its cold, bend back to shape if needed, BEFORE ITS COLD, preferably before it gets to " i can hold it with my bare hands" territory.
Temper roughly at 240c( this should give you a workable temper) for 1 hr MAX
Then, when done, finish off the grinding and the blade finish ( 90% should be done prior to hardening, both grinding and finishing..)
Attach handle.
Make sheath.
Job done!!!
sorry if i've caused any confusion. lets forget the numbers for a minute... i dont have a thermometer while im using the forge and certainly dont trust the oven temp control.
not sure what i said wrong but everything you said in this part is exactly as i do it
"Anneal the file.... (850C ish and hold for a minute. let cool as slowly as possible.)
Do the work that needs doing ( shape, grind, and drill)
Harden at 850C (roughly bright red to orange in a dark room)
Quench in warmed oil ( only warmed)
Check for straightness before its cold"
i dont ever put an edge on a blade before heat treating, i always leave i visible flat edge (at least 1mm) on the cutting edges.
tempering using 01 tool steel i would go straight from heat treat to the oven but its not been the same with the batch of files ive been working on, the reason... after 6 hours plus at (3 lots of two hours) upping the temp each time i could not get the blade it to soften ie file skating hard still! this is the reason i chose to use a blow torch to heat the back of the blade. i found if you dont give more time on the thicker part of the blade it doesnt temper evenly, you also have to be carful not to over do the tip as it can become too soft. like i said they end up with a very good edge and have been tested thoroughly chopping all manner of things (mainly 2 inch thick holly and hazzel) with no damage to the cutting edge and still retaining a good edge) i have a carbon steel blades made by mora that im using for reference... i can tell by the feel how hard or soft a blade is when sharpening and worked as a butcher for many years
by crumbling i mean the blade not holding its cutting edge... if the blade is not tempered enough the the edge its too brittle and will "crumble/chip" this can be seen through a loupe and felt... i temper till the blade takes a good edge and no longer crumbles. hope this clears things up and sorry
Mark
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got the forge going this afternoon and managed a successful heat treat and temper on the little neck knife, taking a smooth razor edge! just need to tidy up the grinds, give it a polish and make up a kydex sheath....
I really really love that. If you ever want to make and sell me one please let me know.
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