Leave no trace?

[Qwerty]

I was out in a new area to me yesterday, a beautiful woodland that is situated on state land. The area I was exploring was not easy at all to reach and I had to follow animal runs and do a fair bit of scrambling up and down to follow the length of the woodland. After a while I came to a lovely semi open area and decided to stop for lunch and try out my new hammock. After about an hour enjoying watching a red squirrel playing in the trees above my head, I packed up and headed off. Just a couple of hundred meters down the hill I came across a camp that was initially very well located and set up etc. It looked like it hadn't been used for about a week, but did look like it was in relatively regular use judging by the wood cuttings lying around and the size of the latrine.

As said, it was a relatively remote location and although it looked like a good little camp I couldn't help but feel a bit troubled by the way it was left (i.e. ready for future use) but also the stones around the fire, the very obvious latrine nearby (a bit too close, but that's another discussion). I have to admit coming over a bit Victor Meldrew and being annoyed at the person(s) for not tidying up after them. By all means stow the things safely nearby for future use, but as this is public land, why assume it's ok to leave the camp set up for their next visit.

So, am I being totally unreasonable and a grumpy bugger or should they apply the leave no trace philosophy to their semi permanent camp?

It's an area I would like to return to but a huge part of the attraction was the untouched by man environment.

 

[Shewie]

It's a tough one this, sometimes I think it's better to leave the area established if it's in regular use, especially the fire ring.

Maybe they've got permission from the land owner to be on there, I know you said it's public land but it will be owned by someone.

I understand the LNT theory if it's in an area that's already untouched, if I come across an area that's been used before than I'll reuse the fire ring etc

 

[Qwerty]

They definitely don't have permission as it's owned by the local council and lighting any fires is printed up in large letters on the list of things you can't do onsite

 

[Scottishwanderer]

As long as theres no litter about and the campsite is kept in good shape i don't see a problem.

Thats if it's used regularly, if it's not LNT.

 

[udamiano]

I still think you should alway leave a place in the same condition as when you arrived, no matter if you intend to return or not, any useful stuff could be stowed out of sight in a tree.
or similar, it doesn't take that much time to e-establish.
well thats my thoughts anyway

 

[rik_uk3]

Its been left clean and tidy so I'd have no problem with that. In fact I'm pro leaving a fire ring in place, at least if its used by others its one less scar on the land.

Whoever used it has left the camp in good condition and I'd view the way they left it as thoughtful to others.

 

[redandshane]

Sometimes places are quite well established and well known to various people who use it and tolerated by landowners
It may well be close to something like a canoeing put in or mountain bike track or established path
Or it may be that someone like you has visited regularly and knows it is an isolated spot and camps there regularly
Looks tidy and well kept
I would have lit a fire and brewed up or go back for an overnighter unless of course you have stumbled on a fugitives hide out lol

 

[Hugo]

It looks OK to me.
I found one just like it at the weekend and am glad I did as I'll be going back for an overnighter this week.

 

[Partickpebbles]

Tricky one, where I go with permission is well hidden, I'm lucky we can leave a basic setup like that. Generally though good practice is to leave no mark.

 

[Paul_B]

My preference is to either use places that are known and frequented or to go out of the way of other people then leave the new site as I found it. Either way I leave the site as it was before I got there or better. I've cleared rubbish a few times from popular wildcamping spots in the Lakes. Nappies are nasty even if they haven't been used (the gel inside them absorbs a lot of moisture and releases it when you move it).

Since that site is established by someone and used more than once (guessing as the area was down to bare earth not the vegetation shown outside the camp area) then it can be managed. There are areas where people go that get quite well used in worse states than that one. Also other areas where the camps have spread out with satellite camps. What is worse one site in regular use and maintained or a few less established sites springing up? It is better not to have any signs of a camp. LNT is preferable but it doesn't happen in the real world so if this is one person or a single group then if they keep using it and leave it in no worse a state than it appears to be in then I see no harm (other than the fact they are breaking the rules of the state owned land but I see nothing wrong with that).

Of course I only ever wild-camp while backpacking so I'm always moving on. Leaving nothing more than slightly compressed grass and perhaps a slight scorch from my whitebox stove (if using gas I get no scorch mark).

 

[w00dsmoke]

It's nothing short of very bad practice to leave it like that. That's partly why camping is now banned on the east side of loch Lomond...My dog had his dew pad sliced off with glass after running through a recently used area similar to this in the Trossachs a few months ago...

This fire ring theory of leaving it established is a joke. Go anywhere in Scotland where people regulary camp...fire rings grow like mushrooms and accumulate broken glass, cans and all kinds of junk ruining the very essense of the space that encourages people there in the first place. But hey it's done by folks who think they respect the place but in reality the sad fact is it leads in nearly all cases to a great disrespect. I'm finding this in some of the wildest and remotest parts of Scotland. And by the way...it's still illegal to do so in Scotland regardless if you think it's okay or not. Folk who don't follow the code in Scotland and LNT will ruin for us who do regardless of where you come from.

 

[ateallthepies]

I think that if I was lucky enough to own a bit of woodland and found a place like this I would not be too upset as long as the users continued to respect the land and keep it tidy.
Would probably even grant retrospective permission for decent bushcrafty folk if they needed it.

It is the scum who go to the woods, trash the place leaving rubbish and empty cans and brown loo roll in the bushes, break the trees and set fire to the area that I have a problem with.

It's the shame the majority of wood and land owners didn't feel the same but I suppose there will always be those who ruin it for others?

Steve.

 

[Paul_B]

I think there is a difference between someone using a site repeatedly and leaving it in a used but tidy state and the likes of those who camp by the side of Loch Lomond and other areas who leave it in a state with cans or bottles all over the place. I've seen spots with black bin bags full of crap just left by the side of the road or just down from the road next to the spot they camped on by the loch. That is bad but leaving a quiet and secluded site in a good state but ready for your next camp out is not too bad really. If a landowner was to come across someone who maintained a site like this I am sure most would probably end up talking to them about what they were doing. I don't mean in a "get 'orf my land" sort of chat. Although I suspect a landowner is probably not likely to spot it if it really is as out of the way as the OP seemed to say it was.

 

[BillyBlade]

As long as the site is left all natural, no glass or aluminium cans etc, I'm fine with seeing that.

 

[santaman2000]

I think there is a difference between someone using a site repeatedly and leaving it in a used but tidy state and the likes of those who camp by the side of Loch Lomond and other areas who leave it in a state with cans or bottles all over the place. I've seen spots with black bin bags full of crap just left by the side of the road or just down from the road next to the spot they camped on by the loch...

That might not be the campers leaving those black bin bags. Over here volunteer groups will do a clean-up/pick-up on foot filling those bin bags with litter/garbage and then leave them by the roadside to be picked up. Might or might not be the same type thing there.