Land owner wants insurance and indemnity to camp

[Margan]

Hi

My local land owner says my son and I can camp with the conditions below. I understand the below insurance levels and indemnity if I am a business, for example hosting an event. Are they normal for members of the public wild camping? I'd appreciate any sensible advice.

I am happy for you to take your son into XXXXXX Woods to carry out a wild camp. Please show this email by way of permission to anyone who may question the legitimacy of your camping. Please can you inform me via this email address as to when you will be going in case I receive any calls.

You are also to:
• indemnify and keep indemnified the Grantor (Sir Edward) against all reasonable actions, proceedings, costs, claims and demands which may be brought or made against the Grantor in respect of personal injury or damage to property arising directly out of any negligent activities, emissions or default of the Grantee (you) in connection with this email and event.
• You are to leave the premises tidy at the end of the period and to remove all rubbish and waste by the end of the access period.
• At your own expense before access starts to take out and maintain in force for so long as is necessary to meet all claims that may legally be made an insurance policy or policies to the satisfaction of the Grantor to cover the Grantee up to Two million pounds (£2,000,000) for any liability, loss or claim or proceedings arising under statute or common law in connection with the event, in respect of personal injury and/or death of any person and loss or damage to the Site caused by the negligence, omission or default of the Grantee, its employees or agents, participants and invitees and all its other liabilities under this Agreement and on request to produce to the Grantor evidence of such cover Provided always that nothing in this clause or elsewhere in this Agreement shall have the effect of limiting the Liability of the Grantee.

 

[Toddy]

Check your house insurance. That kind of stuff used to come under public liability.

 

[Bhod]

Standard indemnity and insurance letter. You agree that by camping on his grounds any accident/occurence that should befall you or those with you, you have no recourse to sue for damages, loss etc. The insurance aspect is in case you or anyone with you should cause any damage or cause him loss through your actions he has a way of recovering his losses.

If you camped at a paying camp ground this would not be required as they would have business liability insurance, with this not being an "official" camp site (IE a business) he's making sure you will cover his losses should any arise.

 

[Broch]

As Toddy says, your household insurance may well cover you for activities away from home. Alternatively, there are companies that provide specific leisure activity insurance - it can be surprisingly good value.

Try SportsCover Direct or see what cover you get by joining the camping club.

 

[Margan]

Great advice. Thank you to everyone.

 

[Margan]

I thought to update the above - in case it helps others.

I spoke to my lawyer - he said whilst he understood the request by the land owner, it was more of a requirement for a business or organisation such as the Scouts. For a member of the public, the request was disproportional to the risk I posed. The main risk of a member of the public being on private land is a claim for financial loss for injury. My lawyer's advice was to phone the land owner, explain the above and offer to write a letter confirming I would not seek to claim any losses.

I phoned the land owner. He understood the points I raised and agreed, the provisions he requested were more suited to an organisation and therefore his risk/concern was around that public liability. As I was a member of the public, he was happy with an email response saying that I would not seek losses for injury and that I would not seek to cause damage. He also requested he knows when I will be on his land. He was supportive of people being in the wild and learning about nature. He will provide a permission email, so if I get challenged about wild camping on his land, I can show I have the right to be there.

Final thoughts - at first this seemed very daunting and I was worried about the conflict. I believe the land owner was pleased I contacted him, as it meant he knew who I was and why I wanted to be on his land. I believe he was pleasantly surprised I contacted him as other people just went on the land without permission. I believe it helped that I we are a father and son combo, he related to wanting to be outdoors and in nature, and that I was polite, courteous and respectful.

Good luck to anyone else in a similar position.

 

[Toddy]

Oh very well done

I hope things go very happily for you all.

M

 

[Broch]

Well done; good outcome.

 

[Chris]

Sounds like a great outcome.

No one around my way seems keen. Happy to hear you’ve found someone with a good attitude towards it all, and good on you for asking.

 

[scruff]

What a great outcome. Good luck to you and your son in your adventures there.

 

[Falstaff]

Glad it worked out well for you, but disagree with your lawyer. Most landowners worry about fire, it can damage a large area and prevent re-use for ages. We have an annual event on fields used for haymaking, a fire could spread, as per Wales presently, and take years to restore. No fires are allowed and we have to be vigilant enforcing this.
We often joke that the best way to get emergency help is to light a fire - the farmer will be out like a shot.

 

[Toddy]

Glad it worked out well for you, but disagree with your lawyer. Most landowners worry about fire, it can damage a large area and prevent re-use for ages. We have an annual event on fields used for haymaking, a fire could spread, as per Wales presently, and take years to restore. No fires are allowed and we have to be vigilant enforcing this.
We often joke that the best way to get emergency help is to light a fire - the farmer will be out like a shot.

I was thinking about this just this morning; about how easily a small fire can suddenly overwhelm someone's best efforts to control it. Especially in dry grass fields or pine woods deep in litter.

Honestly ? right now, unless you're on shingle or the like, do we really need a fire ?

 

[Broch]

Yes, I do agree, but the terminology of the landowner's requirement were more about Margan not claiming off him for negligence (dangerous trees for example). I am not sure any landowner can absolve themselves of that to be honest though and I carry public liability insurance even for trespassers.

As for an individual's liabilities are concerned, this is where joining an organisation helps. For example, my membership of Canoe Wales gives me third party liability insurance. You can get separate insurance that covers you for your liabilities when out and about; I doubt if they'd pay up for causing fire damage in the current conditions though. The reality is, if you cause damage, you are liable - without insurance you could be held personally accountable - it's a risk most of us take every time we step out of our house.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Is there a chance that you'd be spotted by locals who may consider the place 'open bar'.... come in a group, prehaps when you're not there & trash the place & you get the blame ?

 

[Falstaff]

Is there a chance that you'd be spotted by locals who may consider the place 'open bar'.... come in a group, prehaps when you're not there & trash the place & you get the blame ?

I think there is a very good chance of that happening if you are spotted, the young crowd in particular. Unfortunately they are also the ones that feel a fire is a necessary part of having a good time, and as a broad generalisation, do not understand the risks or damage it causes, even if contained and put out afterwards.

 

[Chris]

Best we all sit in a sterile box where no one can see us, passing time by staring into a drawing of a fire.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Best we all sit in a sterile box where no one can see us, passing time by staring into a drawing of a fire.

As much as I appreciate sarcasm....I was just pointing out that checking you have the right insurance for that particular adventure might be a good idea, given the possibility for 3rd party complications.
I mention it as Britain appears to be particularly vulnerable to wild camping spots being trashed.

 

[Toddy]

......and up here at least we're enduring a spate of fires

Wildfire battles continue with 'extreme' warning in place

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has urged the public to "act responsibly" in the dry weather

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Broch]

And here

Wildfires in Ceredigion and Neath Port Talbot rage for third day

Crews were called to three different fire fronts on Tuesday afternoon.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[slowworm]

Fire is a real concern for some. We like to leave plenty of areas around our house to nature, long grass, hedges with plenty of gorse etc. After a month of virtually no rain it's getting tinder dry and as we aren't on mains water it's a bit worrying. A couple of years back when we had a longer drought there were several fire scares around the local countryside.

I wouldn't be happy for someone to have an open fire around here and would expect anyone camping to understand that. Most people here do but plenty of people don't.