Knives sharpening DMT diamonds

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Bert

Forager
Mar 24, 2016
128
26
middle of france
I'm not sure if I'm in the right place to pose my question here?

Years ago I bought one of these DMT diamont "stones" to sharpen my knives, and now I wonder if these ever go dull, or how to treat them correctly.
I tried to look at their website to find some info about that, but I can't even find their site????

anyone here knows something about that?
Thanks.
 

Fraxinus

Settler
Oct 26, 2008
935
31
Canterbury
They will dull eventually but if you look after them DMT diamond stones will last an awful long time. I was advised by them when I bought one to use a Staedtler pencil eraser occasionally to clean the metal from the diamond face, and to use water as a lubricant but dry the stone immediately after use.
 
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Nice65

Brilliant!
Apr 16, 2009
6,482
2,893
W.Sussex
The thing that separates DMT stones from cheaper competition is the adhesive fixing the particles is excellent, and the uniform particle size. They’ll be fine for a long time, perhaps losing a little bit of ‘cut’ over the years.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,665
McBride, BC
They should last a very long time, diamonds being as hard as they are.
Plus, plates usually stay flat, a predictable value not shared with water stones.
Water is a good flux to wash away the swarf.
Do you happen to recall what the nominal grit particle size is?
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,694
711
-------------
I have a 600 grit diamond stone thats got progressively smoother over the years I've been using it.
Still flat though which is handy for flatting the backs of my plane blades and chisels and I have a double sided Faithfull one with 400 and 1000 grit which I use the 400 side for truing my waterstone with.

Out of all my sharpening kit I reckon my waterstone gets the least use as its kind of fussy, nowadays I go from the 1000 grit to a flat bit of wood/MDF charged with honing compound, usually the green.
The waterstone gets left at home.
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,384
2,394
Bedfordshire
Hi,
DMT Diamond, rather than Diamont. The spelling might be what made their site hard to find?
They make good sharpeners. I have a number of the Diafold type.


Color code: red. Diamond size: 25 micron (600 mesh). Note that "mesh" should read grit, and that is just what the manufacturer says, since if you look up micron to grit conversions, you will find quite a variation in how the two are related. Suffice to say, your red hone is somewhere around 600 to 800 grit. Not really a finishing stone, unless you are using it on D2 steel, or similar. On most wood working blades it would generally benefit from going over the edge with a green DMT, or a smooth white ceramic + strop.

A friend of mine wore out his red DMT Diafold in a pretty short time. He used the hone a lot, doing a lot of sharpening of a knife with a CPM S30V blade in a narrow area in the middle of the hone, and used increasing pressure. The diamonds are bonded to the steel by nickel plating and while the diamonds don't dull easily, they can be dislodged from the plating, which is what my buddy suffered from. DMT is good, but not indestructible. Diamond sharpeners really need a light touch.

The other good thing about DMT is that they use mono-crystalline diamond, which is more durable than poly-crystalline (used in cheaper sharpeners). They have info on their site about this.

I always use my diamond stones with water to wash the metal particles away.

Regarding flatness, the standard DMT hones are not particularly flat. They don't dish with wear like water and oil stones, but nor are they guaranteed to be as flat as you can make a water stone with some sandpaper and sheet glass. While I love mine for sharpening axes, knives and the like, I would not use the plastic/sheet metal DMTs for flattening planes or chisels.

Hope this all helps

Chris
 
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Woodcutter2

Forager
Jul 31, 2011
181
29
Conyer, Kent
www.tpknives.com
DMT continuous diamond stones are and have been for at least 20 years the go to flat hone system for all my sharp stuff off belts and plattens, there is always by virtue of the grinder belt a slight convex to the grinds (sometimes required) DMT all the way to flat them out to the required angle, 2 1/2" planes irons down to pointy little carvers, for reliability of flatness I've not had to look for anything else. But.... for speed of cut I am a complete fan of Shapton Waterstones but their softness can be an issue so a knackered old Coarse continuous diamond DMT stone keeps those ones in fine fettle.
 

Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,981
975
Canada
Anyone know if the Spyderco diamond sharpener is any good? It is time for a new Sharpmaker, and maybe I shall get it diamonds too.

For some jobs, I'll rest my DMT up against the Spyderco rods, in any case. So, I might as well make like easier, if it is worth it
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,384
2,394
Bedfordshire
I got some diamond rods to fit the Sharpmaker from someone here. I am not sure that they were genuine Spyderco, nothing on the packaging to show that. Anyway, they work fro what I wanted, which was a coarse re-grinding option for the Sharpmaker. I would say they are up around the 220 grit level. Certainly way faster to take out dinks and chips than the standard brown ceramic rods.
 
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demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,694
711
-------------
Hi,
DMT Diamond, rather than Diamont. The spelling might be what made their site hard to find?
They make good sharpeners. I have a number of the Diafold type.


Color code: red. Diamond size: 25 micron (600 mesh). Note that "mesh" should read grit, and that is just what the manufacturer says, since if you look up micron to grit conversions, you will find quite a variation in how the two are related. Suffice to say, your red hone is somewhere around 600 to 800 grit. Not really a finishing stone, unless you are using it on D2 steel, or similar. On most wood working blades it would generally benefit from going over the edge with a green DMT, or a smooth white ceramic + strop.

A friend of mine wore out his red DMT Diafold in a pretty short time. He used the hone a lot, doing a lot of sharpening of a knife with a CPM S30V blade in a narrow area in the middle of the hone, and used increasing pressure. The diamonds are bonded to the steel by nickel plating and while the diamonds don't dull easily, they can be dislodged from the plating, which is what my buddy suffered from. DMT is good, but not indestructible. Diamond sharpeners really need a light touch.

The other good thing about DMT is that they use mono-crystalline diamond, which is more durable than poly-crystalline (used in cheaper sharpeners). They have info on their site about this.

I always use my diamond stones with water to wash the metal particles away.

Regarding flatness, the standard DMT hones are not particularly flat. They don't dish with wear like water and oil stones, but nor are they guaranteed to be as flat as you can make a water stone with some sandpaper and sheet glass. While I love mine for sharpening axes, knives and the like, I would not use the plastic/sheet metal DMTs for flattening planes or chisels.

Hope this all helps

Chris
As for the flatness and for flatting plane irons off.
I checked my 6" DMT hone with a known straightedge and feelergauge. It's not hard to do and was well within any measure of flatness that I care about.
Sheet of glass bends more when you use it than people think. Still usefull but surprising all the same so its worth bearing in mind.

I own a beautiful Veritas low angle block plane which over the years has slight wear more or less down its centreline as thats the area that gets most wear.
It started off being flatter than a very flat thing and after 17 or so years of tradesman use (not left in a glass case and never used type wear and tear) its not so spot on.
Easy enough to sort but just shows how much use its had.

My wooden jointer plane had the same worn centreline (well actually slightly more worn from the front right to the rear left, showing it had also sometimes been skewed in the cut by a right handed person) but again that wasn't rocket science to sort out by using another plane then a scraper plane on its sole.

There is a thing amongst woodworkers, possibly caused by high end planemakers telling us exactly how flat the soles are where we get to thinking a jackplane or a scrub plane needs to be utterly perfect. Nope, it has to be good enough.
The last couple of years have been an eye opener for me as I've started to have a go with more wooden planes, which so far have been far less hard to use than I assumed.
My jointer cost me a fiver, looks like a terrier has been chewing the front but still works surprisingly well.
So well that I'm questioning accepted wisdom on the longer metal planes being better for anything other than wear resistance.
Admittedly, I'm not pulling wooden planes out the van on site and more often use a 5 1/2 Jack, a blockplane or if I'm taking a lot off a cordless lecky planer.

Anyway, I've digressed a bit there but as for flatness, whatever it is, just measure it. Sometimes its better than expected and sometimes you realise it doesn't need to be to the hundredth of a mm anyway.
 
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C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,384
2,394
Bedfordshire
Just to be sure that we are talking about the same thing...I was talking about the DMT Diafolds and to a lesser extent the bench hones, all of which are a thin layer of steel mounted to a piece of plastic. DMT also do all-steel plates.

I admit that my DMT Diafolds, used for knives, seem to give pretty even cutting, in contrast to the standard ceramic hones by either Spyderco or Fallkniven, which usually show undulations and high spots. However, pieces of moulded plastic are not known for dimensional regularity or stability. If they were flat, guaranteed, then the manufacturer that achieved that would be shouting it from the roof tops, attracting customers away from all the alternatives and competition.

When I am interested in flatness it tends to be either because I want to use all the surface of the sharpener, not just the high spots, or because I want to work through grits on a wide area and want each successive grit to reach the full surface. I am not all that bothered about plane soles, compared to the backs of chisels and plane irons. I haven't tried using a series of DMT Diafold hones for this job, but even if they were dead flat, the smaller size would argue against using them except in a pinch.
 
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demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,694
711
-------------
Just to be sure that we are talking about the same thing...I was talking about the DMT Diafolds and to a lesser extent the bench hones, all of which are a thin layer of steel mounted to a piece of plastic. DMT also do all-steel plates.

I admit that my DMT Diafolds, used for knives, seem to give pretty even cutting, in contrast to the standard ceramic hones by either Spyderco or Fallkniven, which usually show undulations and high spots. However, pieces of moulded plastic are not known for dimensional regularity or stability. If they were flat, guaranteed, then the manufacturer that achieved that would be shouting it from the roof tops, attracting customers away from all the alternatives and competition.

When I am interested in flatness it tends to be either because I want to use all the surface of the sharpener, not just the high spots, or because I want to work through grits on a wide area and want each successive grit to reach the full surface. I am not all that bothered about plane soles, compared to the backs of chisels and plane irons. I haven't tried using a series of DMT Diafold hones for this job, but even if they were dead flat, the smaller size would argue against using them except in a pinch.
I've got a kind of selection.
The Diafold which is so small that its flatness just doesn't make a difference.
Handy for knives and router bits though.
The 600 mesh 50x150mm or so DMT bit of steel with holes and stuck onto a thick ish glass re-enforced plastic isn't the biggest either but manages to flat off chisel backs and small plane blades.

For my Stanley 5 1/2 Stanley 6 need something a bit bigger.
Got a cheapo Faithful 400/1000 hone for that. Again surprisingly flat.
Admittedly I've not feelergauged it but have sighted it with a straightedge.
Its good enough for my 5 1/2 Jack and 6 Foreplane blades.
The blade on my fivers worth of wooden jointer (that had the parallel Norris blade which Ive seen on sale for £95, Yay) looks like David Blunkett flatted it off on his front step.
The last 2mm from the edge could really do with an attack of a Tormek.
I have a mate with one I can borrow but even as it is the damn thing just works and its as good if not better than my Stanley 6 with uber posh Veritas blade.

That does not mean I'm saying that all wooden planes are brilliant and all metals arent.
Nope, it just means that the last three wooden planes I've bought (Lignum Vitae soled german pattern toothing plane, 550mm old English pattern Beech wooden jointer and Lignum Vitae soled German pattern but made in Holland ABC smoother have worked out well for me.

Cheap enough to buy several and leave them setup with the blade out and use each for a slightly different task.

On site is a different matter and my 5 1/2, Veritas blockplane and De-Walt cordless planer are more versatile and I don't need a trailer full of handplanes to make a days wage.

Personally I really rate diamond hones, especially on site where stones are a bit fragile and there seems to me to be a level of waterstone thats just expensive and not significantly better than polishing compound on a bit of wood.

I've not tried the green compound on leather yet, not felt the need but I do have a decent length 100mm wide strip of leather to try it on at some point.

I'm not trying to tell anyone they're wrong. I'm just suggesting they give things a bash and maybe measure stuff. My opinions have had a bit of a revision over the last couple of years (thats code for I realised I was plain wrong) and I realised I needed to actually test things more and not just believe tool catalogues.

Its also quite possible that I'm just chuntering on about my own personal "journey" (Buzzword Bingo yay) but my main point is for people to have a go, test stuff as scientifically as they can, measure things.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,665
McBride, BC
I have measured the total included bevel angle of every wood working edge that I have ever bought.
They are different. I wrote all that down. I made up stock cards with those angles to look at.
I'm convinced that careful reproduction of those angles is always key to sharpening success.

I was taught free-hand sharpening. All the unwritten "tricks" that make it work so very well.
I decided that I would become very proficient and I have done that.

Best strop? Strip of box card or file folder or office file card, etc.
Dabs of masking tape to hold it in place. Scribble chrome green all over it.

Adze blades commonly have sweeps in two directions.
My ideal strop is a tennis ball.
 
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