Kelty, Sierra Designs or MSR

[broonmoon]

Does anyone have experience of the Kelty Dirt Motel 3 or the Sierra Designs Meteor Lite 3? Im weighing them both up against the MSR Elixir 3
Cant find many UK reviews of the Kelty or Sierra. I will be wild camping mainly around central Scotland spring summer autum with occasional winter overnights.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Erbswurst]

The reason could be that they aren't really constructed for British weather conditions?

Do you have the links?

 

[broonmoon]

This is possibly true.
Any recommendations?

 

[Erbswurst]

The questions are:

1.) How many how tall persons (in cm) will use it?
2.) Do you want to carry it in the rucksack? Short or long distances?
Or do you transport it exclusively with bike, boat or car?
3.) Does it stand in the woods, between hedges or also in open country?
4.) Will you use it in mountains outside the forest?
5.) Will you use it along the coast line?
6.) Do you stop camping in stormy weather or do you also go for camping in really rough weather conditions? Do you expect to camp if it snows?
7.) Does it also stand regularly on sand? Or nearly always on green grass?
8.) Does it stand for weeks in the bright sunshine, for example in France, Italy and Greece? Or more in usual British daylight?
9.) Or do you pitch it every evening somewhere else and put it into the rucksack every morning?
10.) How many animals will sleep with you in the tent, which species and how tall are they?
11.) Will you fly with the tent?

You will get the best fitting recommendations if we know all that.

Tents can be very different even if they look very similar from outside.
And some look also very different and are totally different.

 

[broonmoon]

Ahhhh you’re very thorough! Thanks.

1. One at 180cm the other is smaller

2. Rucksack. Various distances. Sometimes long treks to find spot and other times could be a short walk from car.

3. Woods and open country.

4. Sometimes in the mountains although this would be in very fair weather.... if such a thing exists.

5. Yes

6. Not crazy weather but wild. Yes, It may snow once we’re out and we would deal with it as it happened but I wouldn’t choose to go if it was snowing or forecast it.

7. Grass, mainly.

8. British daylight.... Scottish to be more specific.

9. No more than 2 days/nights in one spot.

10. One German Short Haired Pointer. About 90cm long, 56cm tall.

 

[broonmoon]

The questions are:

1.) How many how tall persons (in cm) will use it?
2.) Do you want to carry it in the rucksack? Short or long distances?
Or do you transport it exclusively with bike, boat or car?
3.) Does it stand in the woods, between hedges or also in open country?
4.) Will you use it in mountains outside the forest?
5.) Will you use it along the coast line?
6.) Do you stop camping in stormy weather or do you also go for camping in really rough weather conditions? Do you expect to camp if it snows?
7.) Does it also stand regularly on sand? Or nearly always on green grass?
8.) Does it stand for weeks in the bright sunshine, for example in France, Italy and Greece? Or more in usual British daylight?
9.) Or do you pitch it every evening somewhere else and put it into the rucksack every morning?
10.) How many animals will sleep with you in the tent, which species and how tall are they?
11.) Will you fly with the tent?

You will get the best fitting recommendations if we know all that.

Tents can be very different even if they look very similar from outside.
And some look also very different and are totally different.

11. No

 

[Erbswurst]

I would look for a lightweight siliconised Nylon two bow tunnel with not too small vestibule (but also not too large) and high quality aluminium poles that attach to the OUTER tent, NOT to the INNER.

No mesh overhead in the inner tent, because condensation water rain would become a problem in this case.

The best option is in my opinion the Hilleberg Nallo2.
A used Nammatj2 might be an option too but it's heavier, far less comfortable to enter and is mainly constructed for the weather conditions that you try to avoid.

The Nallo2 works in such really rough weather conditions too but isn't constructed for the Himalaya. The Nammatj2 is it indeed.

I wouldn't go with a cheaper tent to the Atlantic coast or in mountains without vegetation. One can do it if bivvy bags are on board, but anyway it's surely no pleasure if your middle class tent breaks in a storm.

Bought from a trusty seller a just a bit used Hilleberg tent usualy is the better investment than a new middle price tent.
These 300 € tents usually aren't constructed to stand free at the Atlantic or in areas without any vegetation in all weather conditions. Yes, they break. Most tents simply break in a storm.

There are a few a bit cheaper, heavier also very robust tents on the market. Helsport could be an option for example. But I don't really know these, as I bought more than 25 years ago a Nallo2, because I was already as a student tired about failing middle class tents.

It's possible that in between the competition came closer to the Hilleberg quality level. As I didn't spend so much time in the last years on camping grounds northern from Germany I simply don't know that for sure. Wechsel seems to make also good stuff for example.

But if I look at the details of such tents I usually loose the interest pretty soon.

But that doesn't mean that a good Nallo2 copy can't exist. The problem is just, that most informed people will avoid the financial risk to try out such a copy.

The more the chosen construction differs from a Nallo2, the less convincing it will surely be for you. So, if you don't buy a new one or find a good used one for a sensible price, you should look for a copy that's as close as possible in every detail.

Igloo tents are strong but heavy and often it rains into the entrance, directly on the sleeping bags.
I wouldn't buy such a tent for 3 seasons use in Britain. They are sensible for bad weather conditions and really strong people or those who don't carry it in the rucksack anyway.

It isn't easy to make an easily portable good tent that's storm resistant and works well in a rainy country.

Most tents are transported by car or bicycle and pitched in wind protected places. And the tent market reflects that.

 

[broonmoon]

I would look for a lightweight siliconised Nylon two bow tunnel with not too small vestibule (but also not too large) and high quality aluminium poles that attach to the OUTER tent, NOT to the INNER.

No mesh overhead in the inner tent, because condensation water rain would become a problem in this case.

The best option is in my opinion the Hilleberg Nallo2.
A used Nammatj2 might be an option too but it's heavier, far less comfortable to enter and is mainly constructed for the weather conditions that you try to avoid.

The Nallo2 works in such really rough weather conditions too but isn't constructed for the Himalaya. The Nammatj2 is it indeed.

I wouldn't go with a cheaper tent to the Atlantic coast or in mountains without vegetation. One can do it if bivvy bags are on board, but anyway it's surely no pleasure if your middle class tent breaks in a storm.

Bought from a trusty seller a just a bit used Hilleberg tent usualy is the better investment than a new middle price tent.
These 300 € tents usually aren't constructed to stand free at the Atlantic or in areas without any vegetation in all weather conditions. Yes, they break. Most tents simply break in a storm.

There are a few a bit cheaper, heavier also very robust tents on the market. Helsport could be an option for example. But I don't really know these, as I bought more than 25 years ago a Nallo2, because I was already as a student tired about failing middle class tents.

It's possible that in between the competition came closer to the Hilleberg quality level. As I didn't spend so much time in the last years on camping grounds northern from Germany I simply don't know that for sure. Wechsel seems to make also good stuff for example.

But if I look at the details of such tents I usually loose the interest pretty soon.

But that doesn't mean that a good Nallo2 copy can't exist. The problem is just, that most informed people will avoid the financial risk to try out such a copy.

The more the chosen construction differs from a Nallo2, the less convincing it will surely be for you. So, if you don't buy a new one or find a good used one for a sensible price, you should look for a copy that's as close as possible in every detail.

Igloo tents are strong but heavy and often it rains into the entrance.
I wouldn't buy such a tent for 3 season use in Britain. They are sensible for bad weather conditions and really strong people or those who don't carry it in the rucksack anyway.

It isn't easy to make an easily portable good tent that's storm resistant and works well in a rainy country.

Most tents are transported by car or bicycle and pitched in wind protected places. And the tent market reflects that.

Thanks very much for taking the time to give me such a reply. This is really helpful information. I will look for Nallo2 second hand.

 

[Erbswurst]

Robens Arch2 is a pretty close copy of the Nallo2 for example. Voyager 2 EX a close copy of the Hilleberg Nallo 2 GT.

If they survive a Scottish storm I can't tell you.

If you are strong and your dog can't sit still, the Nallo2 GT or its various copies might ba a good option too.

But I always recommend to buy the lighter versions if people are in doubt. Although pretty tall and strong I personally don't like to play the pack horse if I can avoid it, and I also recommend to others to select their equipment like this, if they aren't so experienced that they can go in the most lonely areas of the world and don't need any recommendations anyway.

And you will find for a smaller tent more easily a place to pitch than for a larger one. The large one can cause real problems in the mountains, but in other places too!

But to say it very clear:

In this forum I am the guy who writes the most about low budget equipment.
I tried out a lot of low budget clothing, most was factory new rubbish of course, but I discovered that the really cheap Solognac clothing can convince also in the long run.
I recommend nearly always and everywhere to buy military surplus of the own army used in good conditions, because that's nearly always the best deal one can make.

I buy and try low budget equipment and the few items that do not fail I recommend with pleasure.

But a mountain tent is a mountain tent.
That isn't playing trapper in the woods behind the house. That leaves the usual bushcraft frame.

One can follow most of my low budget recommendations in order to save up the money to buy a good tent if it is needed for the adventures one plans to do.

Most people buy far too expensive clothing and other equipment and in the end they buy a bad tent and a bad sleeping bag.
I recommend to invest the money into the boots, the sleeping bag and if needed the tent, and to get here the best of the best.

But a stainless steel spoon from grandmas kitchen drawer will work fine for example, a used army field bottle or a used army Goretex suit.

Sometimes we need to invest real money if we want to get good equipment. But often we can buy very very cheap stuff, if we get the right informations and can save a fortune if we compare the prices with the usual middle priced offers of the outdoor industry.

Some of the best equipment in the world is constructed or bought by NATO armies and they throw it behind you - used or even unused - every corner.
Who selects here the right stuff, saves the money he needs to get the best civil equipment that he can't simply buy in a military surplus shop.

The most sensible is to buy the right mix if one has a limited budget as usual.

The most stupid is to buy uninformed all equipment from civil offers in the upper middle price range. Here the outdoor industry earns the most money because they easily can betray the upper middle class buyer. Most offers are traps.

 

[broonmoon]

Robens Arch2 is a pretty close copy of the Nallo2 for example. Voyager 2 EX a close copy of the Hilleberg Nallo 2 GT.

If they survive a Scottish storm I can't tell you.

If you are strong and your dog can't sit still, the Nallo2 GT or its various copies might ba a good option too.

But I always recommend to buy the lighter versions if people are in doubt. Although pretty tall and strong I personally don't like to play the pack horse if I can avoid it, and I also recommend to others to select their equipment like this, if they aren't so experienced that they can go in the most lonely areas of the world and don't need any recommendations anyway.

And you will find for a smaller tent more easily a place to pitch than for a larger one. The large one can cause real problems in the mountains, but in other places too!

But to say it very clear:

In this forum I am the guy who writes the most about low budget equipment.
I tried out a lot of low budget clothing, most was factory new rubbish of course, but I discovered that the really cheap Solognac clothing can convince also in the long run.
I recommend nearly always and everywhere to buy military surplus of the own army used in good conditions, because that's nearly always the best deal one can make.

I buy and try low budget equipment and the few items that do not fail I recommend with pleasure.

But a mountain tent is a mountain tent.
That isn't playing trapper in the woods behind the house. That leaves the usual bushcraft frame.

One can follow most of my low budget recommendations in order to save up the money to buy a good tent if it is needed for the adventures one plans to do.

Most people buy far too expensive clothing and other equipment and in the end they buy a bad tent and a bad sleeping bag.
I recommend to invest the money into the boots, the sleeping bag and if needed the tent, and to get here the best of the best.

But a stainless steel spoon from grandmas kitchen drawer will work fine for example, a used army field bottle or a used army Goretex suit.

Sometimes we need to invest real money if we want to get good equipment. But often we can buy very very cheap stuff, if we get the right informations and can save a fortune if we compare the prices with the usual middle priced offers of the outdoor industry.

Some of the best equipment in the world is constructed or bought by NATO armies and they throw it behind you - used or even unused - every corner.
Who selects here the right stuff, saves the money he needs to get the best civil equipment that he can't simply buy in a military surplus shop.

The most sensible is to buy the right mix if one has a limited budget as usual.

The most stupid is to buy uninformed all equipment from civil offers in the upper middle price range. Here the outdoor industry earns the most money because they easily can betray the upper middle class buyer. Most offers are traps.

Yes, that all makes perfect sense. We do libe in a world of repeating consumption, where we’re told that “X” is the thing you need in your life and will last for years only to find that its not actually that great and is quickly deteriorating. Thanks again for your honest words and the time taken to write them.

 

[Erbswurst]

With pleasure!


If you get a problem with a Hilleberg tent, just contact them! They have a good client service and they repair their tents for a sensible price. For example they change the floor of an old tent for approximately 100 € if necessary.

Like Victorinox changes the blade of a usual pocket knife for 10 €.

If others send you a standard e-mail that they regret your bad luck, you can feel really happy that they didn't totally ignore you.

You usually can see that already if you look at the country of origin.
Old European brand, but all made in Asia?
- They obviously want to earn money, real money, as fast as possible.

Still made in Europe or in the USA?
They obviously try to act as fair as possible and trust in the own quality.

There are good Asian made pieces of outdoor equipment, no question!
But that's the little minority.

 

[broonmoon]

Hi, Erbswurst,
Just to let you know that after your advice and information, I got a new tent. Well, a new old tent.
I got a Fjalleraven abisko shape 2 second hand on ebay. Its only two years old, immaculate and cost far less than a new one.
Thanks again for your time and input.
Cheers

 

[Erbswurst]

With pleasure!

New I would have chosen the Nallo2 GT instead of this for several reasons, but as you got a good price for the FR copy that's surely a good choice.

The FR copies seem to come pretty close to the Hilleberg quality and for normal use in Britain that's surely good enough.

 

[broonmoon]

Yes, I got the footprint with it aswell so I was a great deal altogether.

I think it should be and if it’s requiring upgrading if I ever decide to partake in more extreme activities then I will opt for a Nallo2 GT.

Thanks again.