Junk or Jewel

[British Red]

Was taking some stuff to the council dump the other day and BB spotted this against a wall covered in cobwebs and rust

Its intact apart rom a tiny piece of the handle loop missing from one end (still hooks to loop on the pot but can come unhooked). Its clearly iron but I would hesitate to say "cast iron" since it was clearly made in sections and assembled.

I would guess it has quite some age - the handle for example is clearly handmade.

It is still structuraly sound but thick with rust.

It'll become a restoration project. I have restored an old cast iron lipped skillet with a loop handle before so I know whats involved (a lot of elbow grease ). But I do like really old things and returning them to use.

So - complete tat and use a stainless steel billy can or a jewel in the rough?

You decide!

Red

 

[rancid badger]

definite jewel there, at least from my point of view anyway. What about having it shot blasted? it would really come up nice then.
I remember years ago, my older brother bought an old stone terrace house, it was a typical one up one down with a shanty type kitchen extension at the back.It had been some sort of tied cottage, probably tied to the colliery and at least 120 years old, Anyway the place was a dump and the original fireplace had been bricked up, so he decided to open it up again, lo and behold behind the brickwork were a cauldron/pot very similar to yours and inside it were several old straight razors! at least one of which was ivory handled if I remember correctly.
I love stuff like this, no idea what happened to the stuff our lad discovered.

keep us posted on progress
kind regards
R.B.

 

[British Red]

Will do!

I like to do jobs like this by hand (well I do use a drill with a wire brush attachment)

The inside is much, much worse than the outside. I suspect someone used it as a plant pot

No worries - just more work.

I brushed off all the loose rust on the inside - its quite pitted but serviceable (heck it'll be a soup pot anyway - doesn't need to be dead flat like the skillet and dutch ovens are). Its now getting reds patent rust eater treatment (malt vinegar and water) on the inside. When I get the inside roughed out, I'll go to work on the outside. I might black stove enamel the outside if I'm not happy with the pitting, but I'll probably just oil season it inside and out. I have tried fats for seasoning, but its easy to go too thick with it so thin oil coats and plenty of them is my way.

All good fun at least

Red

 

[Dougster]

Virtuous yes, fun we'll see. I will definately be interested in seeing a finished pic though/

 

[British Red]

Well since you wanted a bit of progress, this was the interior

Some stiff wire brush attention to remove the surface rust and then a 3 hour dip in half and half malt vinegar and water got me to here

Anything loose is off now and the dilute acid in the vinegar has cleaned out all the pitting. Next job when I find the time is another light brush to get back to bare metal.

After that some attention on the outside and seasoning

This is the last piece of cast iron that BB found for for me. This one was in just as bad (well probably worse) state on the outside.

I love the design of this piece - the fact that the handle splits round the pouring spout is so elegant.

Anyway - back to the toil soon

Red

 

[Fin]

A jewel, definitely. If you can restore it (and you look like you know what you're doing - definitely moving in the right direction) then you'll have a marvelous item. What size is it Red? You may want to consider getting a custom made lid for it if it's going to be a user.

I love cast iron cookware - holds the heat forever! That skillet is beautiful too!

Good luck with the restoration and keep us updated!

 

[mr dazzler]

Hi Fin
It looks like your under way now, but you could have saved yourself a lot of hassle using this method

http://www.owwm.com/FAQ/electrolysis.asp
https://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/electrolysis/electrolysis.htm

I used to scrape/scrub/emory paper etctetc (and put up with the cruddy mess, noise, using up large amounts of emory cloth etcd) to do old panel saw's some of them like time team old relic's encrusted in rust/paint/grease/soot etc. I tried the electroysis method and it amazed me, the current does all the elbow grease over a 24 hour period, you just have to gently brush off the jelly residues that are produced and rinse to finish. Its such a good method they have even de rusted old seized up stationery engines and got them working. And it only attacks rust, unlike citric/phosphoric/vinegar etc it wont attack good metal it stops working once the oxide's are delaminated from the object. It is so delicate it wont harm the original maker's acid etch name plates on the saw blade. When you use any acid method you have a devil of a job to rinse completely otherwise you get re rust within minutes

 

[Toddy]

Oh Lucky man It's a jewel, and the planter was the fate of all too many of these pots. The fact that it is riveted *suggests* older rather than Victorian, especially if it doesn't have long legs.
Pot and plate cooking is how to really use the cauldron; there ought to be two lids, a slightly concave inner one and a convex outer one. This allows bread or things like eggie dishes to be cooked in the space between the two lids. I never see the two lids nowadays though. Heaven knows where they all went.

I've got three of those shallow pans, they nest inside each other, but they do need cleaned.
They are a very pleasing design as well as being excellent to use.

Mr Dazzler, thank you for the links I'm going to give that a try. The washing soda is available in the necessity shops for 89p a 500g bag. It's the best degreaser I know.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Chopper]

I can't believe it, you have found the Holy Grail.

Hail Red :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

 

[British Red]

Thanks for the info all (and the kind words)

Its quite a handy size - about 8" tall I'd guess. I may well have to look into a lid I think, but lets see how it turns out first

As for age - little stubby legs Toddy and certainly pre-victorian I suspect.

I'll have to try that electrolysis route - it does look a lot easier!

Thanks all

Red

 

[fred gordon]

Looks great, certainly a lucky find and worth keeping. Looks as if it could well be used in a scene from Macbeth. Eye of toad etc...

 

[mr dazzler]

I'll have to try that electrolysis route - it does look a lot easier!

It is so simple, I was skeptical when I first heard about it. In my case I made 2 tanks long and narrow to suit saw blade's, from exterior ply lined with guttering silicone (the tank must be non-condutive of electric)
It is way easier. Like on your pot there, all those little dents and dimple's will still hold small quantities of oxides, the wire brushes emory etc wont reach right in, and you can often ruin the patina that way tearing into new metal on the protruding edges. The electrolytis method gets into every nook and cranny equally, and very little elbow grease. It pays to brush and rinse thoroughly, dry then finish straight away with wax or whatever or you get re rusting quite fast
I quickly burnt out my original battery charger but replaced it with (IIRC) an 8 or 10 amp one and no problems since, I did a lot of saws, all complete restorations, blade retaining its patina and acid etch, and also refurb the handles, nuts the lot also re set and sharpen, they were selling for over £30 each, cost me 40p each. No more than an hour or two to do a saw (I do know what ones to look out for though)

 

[British Red]

Hmmm

The thing with the pot is that I want the patina gone on the interior (or as much as possible at least). The finishing treatment is a baked on oil seasoning and it works best on bare iron. - wee'll see how it goes anyway

How close does the sacrificial metal need to be? would a rod or bar suspended into the middle of the 6" diameter pot work okay?

Red

 

[British Red]

Well all the junk is scoured off and I have seasoned it once...it seems to be improving nicely. It needs several more layers of seasoning of course, but this is the state today

Red

 

[mr dazzler]

Hmmm

The thing with the pot is that I want the patina gone on the interior (or as much as possible at least). The finishing treatment is a baked on oil seasoning and it works best on bare iron. - wee'll see how it goes anyway

How close does the sacrificial metal need to be? would a rod or bar suspended into the middle of the 6" diameter pot work okay?

Red

Do you mean as in try to clean the inside only with elecroltyic method? It wouldnt work because the object to be cleaned has to be in a non conducting vessell, the entire object being neg charged and the sacrifcal anode being posi charged the atoms migrate from the item and take crap with them and dump it on the sacrificial anode (PS never use stainless steel for the anode as it gives off poison with electrolysis apparently!!). So it works on the entire object, you couldnt use the inside of he object as a tempory vat. In your case maybe you could consider shotblasting the inside only to reach fresh metal (I assume its for hygiene reasons?) and leave the outside as is.
That whole thorny issue of to wether to remove or leave patina on old item's can get some folk a bit wound up, the american's tend to like to leave it untouched, us brit's tend to go for new and shiny looking Its just that a saw is unusable with a layer of crap all over it, so it has to be sacrificed in the name of restoration BUT I wouldnt start to use sanding discs/belt sander's etc to get down into clean new steel, I've seen so many decent old relics ruined by clumsy attempts to refurb them.
Try the method Red I think you'd ike it, use anything with oxide deposits on. Use a cut down milk carton or plastic bucket as a vat, the rest of the stuff you need is easy to source and cheap also. I tried acetic acid bath's as well, on their own and juiced up with electric current (dont worry no more than 12v ). Though not as evil (or fast) as neat sulfuric (I have used that industrially, its nasty stuff), its still smelly and messy. It works but the rerusting issue makes it difficult to get a good finish. PLUS acetic acid is hard to get in large quantities, aparently the smack heads like to use it with crack cocaine or something, the chemists I tried all looked at me funny, only the home brew man would let me have any
cheers Jonathan

 

[British Red]

Acetic acid I ahve (and malic, tartaric and vatious other nasties).

I'll give it a go next time Jon - I'm in the process of burning stuff back on the pot now

Oh, I realise the whole pot gets done - my question was more "how close does the anode have to be to the cathode" as one of the articles said "as close as possible". Now that could mean mean a few microns or a few metres!

Red

 

[mr dazzler]

When I was doing saws/chisel's etc I would put them at one side of the vat (which was about 3 foot long and 8 inch wide and 10 inch high) and the anode dangling over at the other side, in the centre, so they would be maybe 6 inches or so apart. I never found that to be a critical distance, its more critical to ensure that the anode doesnt touch the item being cleaned (short circuit) And also important to regulary check that anode and scrape the crap off it to maintain efficient cleaning effect (I had several ones and while one was in the vat I'd clean the other one) and also vital to maintain clean good contacts. I used rough worn ouit old file's mostly. If I was to set up again to do more than a few, I'd get me an old kitchen sink/drainer and have it on a bench like a pathologist's bench to run all the rinsings away directly into the drain instead of the floor. After a while it stains the concrete etc. Aparently the used washing soda residue from the vat is harmless it wont even kill grass.
The reason I tried acetic was to do several saw blades at once. You could do multi electroltyic but youd need to arrange them in a series and need also a BIG battery charger (like an industrial plating vat) I made an acid vat and in either end at the bottom fixed 2 blocks with matching saw kerf's so the blades could be sat in them and lined up with a gap between each one so you could swill acid freely round it etc. Pros and cons I guess.
Phosphric acid works too (available in cattle supplement or something?? AKA coker coler. I heard of a bloke who restores clocks he uses tea to clean delicate part's
cheers Jonathan