Internal v External frame packs

[richy3333]

I've been looking around at 'treating' myself to a new bergan sized pack (say 80+ litres). I have a long term chronic issue with my sacroiliac joint for which I receive treatment and manage the issue well. Somehow by trawling the interweb I started to notice external frame packs (previously just been looking at internal frame types) and was wondering if anyone with SI or back problems has ever considered the pro's/cons of these types of packs before? I appreciate that any comments are most probably going to be anecdotal but is one type better than another when you have a chronic medical issue? Due to the terrain I walk it would have to be a pack - can't drag or wheel something and I appreciate all the usual advice about only packing what you need etc.

Any comments/observations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Janne]

I have two damaged vertebrae, compressed, plus damaged disks.
I had an external framed bsckpack, until BA broke it.

I do not like internal frames as there is no ventilation on my back. Also no possibility to extend the frame.

I have always packed so the weight goes as high as possible, and as much forward as possible.
Then I have the pack adjusted so my hips carry the vast majority of the weight, and the shoulders mainly prevent the pack from tipping to the rear.

I am on the lookout for a new one. What have you found so far?

Your comment about dragging or wheeling is funny. Do people really do that?

 

[crosslandkelly]

There are a few different ones.


Richy, I recently bought an old external frame pack. I've not used it out yet, but have loaded it and found it to be more comfortable than a similar sized internal frame pack.
Also got this from the web. http://www.outdoors.org/articles/amc-outdoors/internal-frame-vs-external-frame-packs/

 

[Janne]

Those pictures are like from a comedy show!

The pulk in the middle is pretty much useless. To close to the person. Stretch your leg back and the ski will hit it.

Love that American guy. I guess he needs that much pack to carry his Root Beer and snacks?

I am currently on a lookout for a Coleman plastic frame, the large one.
If you guys find one, let me know!

 

[crosslandkelly]

https://www.entrygear.com/product.asp?id=DE-1606 AC

 

[Robson Valley]

Thanks for the pictures. The wheels are far too narrow and small in diameter.
Look at what's used on a construction wheel barrow or a big grass/brush mower.

Skinny bicycle wheels in the snow? Not here in 10' of snow. Even snowmobiles have skiis and track.
Build a serious toboggan like serious winter travellers use.
I've seen that done here in a BCUK thread. Very, very well done, I might add.
We buy them for the kids to play with on hills.

 

[MrEd]

I have a back problem due to a vertebrae fracture years ago. I found the biggest thing that has helped my back when carrying a loaded Bergen (I have a 110l berghaus one) is a good solid belt to take the weight on your hips then adjustments at the top of the shoulder straps so the weight is pulled forwards and up so that my centre of gravity is maintained and therefore my spine is kept in alignment and is more co for table.

the fact that I have a really messed up leg and struggle to carry a loaded Bergen due to that is more of a problem
now.....

 

[Bishop]

Trick question, neither internal or external frames have any significant advantages when it comes to lower back problems. It's all in the hips as they say and what you are looking for is good load transfer to them, keeping the weight off your shoulders & spine. Posture I suspect also aggravates problem and one way of compensating is to go down a pack size and add a chest rig but it's a trade-off putting load onto the spine. On the flipside it will make you stand more upright.

There is a third option however it's still experimental, the bouncing backpack.

 

[richy3333]

Thanks Bishop. A chest rig isn’t something I’d considered before. I suspect many military type rucksacks will have that sort of option with molle et al.

BTW it wasn’t a trick question. Having started to look around the internet a comment often made is that an external frame rucksack is more adjustable. However never having owned a ‘quality’ one I really didn’t know if this was true or just sales speak. I only ever had a cheap (Millets) fixed one from back in the 1980s when a mate and I walked the Ridgeway path.

 

[Janne]

Thanks RV pointing out the bicycle wheels on what I thought was a pulk...

Seriously? A wheeled thingy in snow?

As I wrote, on a well designed outside frame you can make an extention. Purely vertical /up, or a vertical with a shelf above your head. This solution is the most practical.

I personally do not like any bags and such on my chest.
I recall the old Swedish recomendations, 70% of the weight on the hips, rest in shoulders. I followed that until my own damage.

With heavy loads, above 30 kilos, you need to have a very good and well designed hip belt.
I made my own back pack kombo, from bits from various manufacturers.

 

[santaman2000]

I grew up with external framed rucks and generally I like them best for that reason alone. That said, the more advanced internal frame backs are now quite adjustable: I.E. the Marine Corps' ILBE rucks.

 

[Janne]

Those MOLLE frames are confusing..
Looks useful though! Will investigate.

I grew up with external ones too. Aluminium mainly. Broke them. Fjällräven did some fabulous ones in the 70’s, but incredibly fragile.
Coleman did a fantastic one.

 

[Bishop]

cheap (Millets) fixed one from back in the 1980s

Sounds like the infamous Millets/Campari 'Trekker' I think it's called. Or Old Spine Chipper as I call mine lol.
Surprisingly nice pack once it had been attacked with a hacksaw, had the padding replaced and a decent hip belt fitted.

 

[crosslandkelly]

That's a good sized hip flask in the side pocket.

 

[MikeLA]

Still use and prefer my SAS/Para external frame Bergen. Nothing has beat it including a crusader

 

[boney gumbo mcgee]

I switched about 5 years ago to external frame packs due to a back problem, and I do prefer them, horses for courses and all that. I have a Savotta 323, Savotta LJK, LK70 and LK35 and I get on much better with them. I also have a french army cce camo bergen which is kind of a hybrid as in the frame is on the outside of the pack but it is more hugging to the back, I tend to use this one more for car camping.

 

[snappingturtle]

Cyclops internal and gets sweaty my alice external not so much, comfort wise hard to say I would say alice but think that is due to not being able to cram so much in it!

 

[petrochemicals]

Osprey ag range, they are an essentially exterior frame pacl that the frame loads at the hip bones, so gives a good spread around the back. The pack though is loaded low down so may have better stability than a traditional external

Trick question, neither internal or external frames have any significant advantages when it comes to lower back problems. It's all in the hips as they say and what you are looking for is good load transfer to them, keeping the weight off your shoulders & spine. Posture I suspect also aggravates problem and one way of compensating is to go down a pack size and add a chest rig but it's a trade-off putting load onto the spine. On the flipside it will make you stand more upright.

There is a third option however it's still experimental, the bouncing backpack.

That looks horrendous, the resonance will surely build up and youll get that effect like you do on the millenium walking bridge fiasco. I suppose if they do it right it could work though.

 

[richy3333]

I have a back problem due to a vertebrae fracture years ago. I found the biggest thing that has helped my back when carrying a loaded Bergen (I have a 110l berghaus one) is a good solid belt to take the weight on your hips then adjustments at the top of the shoulder straps so the weight is pulled forwards and up so that my centre of gravity is maintained and therefore my spine is kept in alignment and is more co for table.

the fact that I have a really messed up leg and struggle to carry a loaded Bergen due to that is more of a problem
now.....

Thanks mrEd. That’s great information to know and will certainly help with my dilemma/deliberations.
It’s just a personal thing but I never got to grips with Berghaus rucksacks. Used a Vulcan for years in STABs but never found it comfortable (this was all way before my SI problem). I reserved it for use on exercise and when out climbing (cities) always used something else.

 

[richy3333]

Sounds like the infamous Millets/Campari 'Trekker' I think it's called. Or Old Spine Chipper as I call mine lol.
Surprisingly nice pack once it had been attacked with a hacksaw, had the padding replaced and a decent hip belt fitted.
View attachment 46365

That’s very similar, mine was ma garish yellow/gold colour!