In the News Today

[Toddy]

Epi pens are a last resort. If I present at hospital with anaphylactic shock they feed antihistmines first, and only if that's not resolving things quickly enough would they use epinedrine.
It's a hellish shock to the system. You don't just get up and get on with things pdq, put it that way.

M

 

[Toddy]

How did people learn to safely eat poisonous plants ?

Article on the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859333

 

[Keith_Beef]

A very interesting article, about a subject that has been on my mind for years.

It's not only about food, but technology, too.

I can imagine somebody building a fire, and finding that native copper ran from stones used as a hearth, and so the idea of copper smelting is born. And maybe accidental alloys led to bronze.

In a similar way, maybe it was the accidental drying out or roasting followed by reconstitution with water that led people to learn how to process foods similar to cassava.

 

[C_Claycomb]

How did people learn to safely eat poisonous plants ?

Article on the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859333

I saw that and was going to post it too.

Better examples would be, how did the Bushmen figure out to use the grubs on the roots of the comifora bush as arrow poison.

 

[Janne]

Or, in an area with plenty to eat why eat poisonous plants or animals?

 

[Keith_Beef]

Or, in an area with plenty to eat why eat poisonous plants or animals?

The area might have a plentiful food supply now, but have gone through periods of famine or short supply in the past. Then the consumption of what is apparently a bad food choice becomes ingrained as culture and tradition, and people carry it on.

 

[Keith_Beef]

The area might have a plentiful food supply now, but have gone through periods of famine or short supply in the past. Then the consumption of what is apparently a bad food choice becomes ingrained as culture and tradition, and people carry it on.

There are places in the USA where people eat pokeweed leaves... maybe only once or twice a year.

 

[Janne]

Good points! That will explain the British Cuisine then!
( And Scandinavian, plus Finnish........)



(I am pulling your leg, mother was a food historian, and used us a guinea pigs.........
I did not mind, it started my interest in food, including Exotic food..)

Two things/foods I would not touch. The SE Asian unborn bird babies, and South American alcoholic beverage which is made by old toothless ladies chewing and spitting it out.
Fresh Whale Eyes, fermented birds - bring it on!

 

[Robson Valley]

Humans have foraged for local plant and animal materials for hundreds of thousands of years.
Nothing has gone unexplored. No plants of economic value have been introduced in recorded history.
What's good, bad or indifferent was sorted out in the earliest of paleo times.

I fully expect that there have been fatal blunders which have long since gone unrecorded.
This is exactly the kind of knowledge that you expect to be remembered by your medicine man/medicine woman.
Not some honky white guy's big pharma textbook.

Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning was and is the classic example from the Pacific Northwest.

 

[Janne]

We have lost knowledge of plants of future economic, or pharmacological vale.

Here on Cayman, (where the soils are non existent so the population relied on Fish, invertebrates and turtles, with the odd Iguana thrown into the pot,) they got Ciguatera poisoning as a rule.
Lost all teeth at a young age, nerve problems, muscle pain.
Still happens, have friends that had a couple of bouts of it.

They knew which fish, but hunger is a strong motivator!

 

[Robson Valley]

Neolithic is alive and well here, not some 10,000 yrs BP followed by a bronze age.
Direct jump to iron with European contact. That wasn't much more than 200 years ago here in the PacNW.

Of course, you might expect a lot of old ways to have been abandoned in favor of labor saving designs.
However, much of the botanical things, the pharmacognacy of local plants, is very well understood and practiced.
Trusted elders make up the salves and tinctures as they always have.

 

[Nice65]

Epi pens are a last resort. If I present at hospital with anaphylactic shock they feed antihistmines first, and only if that's not resolving things quickly enough would they use epinedrine.

Very much so. Epipens can also be misunderstood, even by medically trained nurses. I’ve had a highly allergic urticaria (hives) reaction to something unknown several times and had to get to a doctors, and once to A&E gasping for breath. In A&E I was given intravenous antihistamine and steroids to reduce the swelling that was making it difficult to breathe. A nurse recommended I see my GP about carrying an epipen. So I did, as these reactions were getting worse each time. The GP looked at my hospital report and said my blood pressure was above normal to high during the episode. Anaphylaxis presents as extremely low BP and an epipen under those circumstances could have been deadly. A severe allergic reaction is not anaphylactic shock.

Later, it turned out I had Lymphoma and my whole immune system was in some sort of confused overdrive attacking my thyroid which unbeknown to me had been underactive (hypo) probably for many years. My doctor was furious about that nurse, said it was like recommending aspirins or ibuprofen to someone with stomach ulcer pain.

 

[Janne]

Found and interesting article/ research about food -isms and heart health in the British Medical Journal

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4897

 

[Toddy]

Interesting article, Janne Thank you for the link.

So, they're really saying that the lower LDC in vegetarians, while a good thing re heart health might be an issue with, albeit a tiny proportion of the vegetarians, strokes.
VitB, VitD seem to play a part too.

Makes me wonder if the general poor heart health of many of those in the the North of the UK might actually have something to do with the lack of VitD too, and not just the diet.
Our Government recommends that we all take VitD supplements from Autumn through to Spring.

Vegetarians now know that they have to be aware of the VitB12 lack in our diet, it wasn't always so. Most just ignored the issue entirely.

The report makes mention of socio-economic and educational backgrounds, but it doesn't mention the changing background of the information flow through the years re diet.
Like the specific vitamins, I mean.

M

 

[Janne]

Just saw this in DM. I hope it is true!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...ks-released-Britain-hope-breed-600-years.html

Sweden lost them in the 40’s, but they came back in the late 90’s.
I saw many in Hungary and around Rust in Austria.
Magnificent birds!
I hope the project is successful!

 

[demographic]

Interesting article, Janne Thank you for the link.

So, they're really saying that the lower LDC in vegetarians, while a good thing re heart health might be an issue with, albeit a tiny proportion of the vegetarians, strokes.
VitB, VitD seem to play a part too.

Makes me wonder if the general poor heart health of many of those in the the North of the UK might actually have something to do with the lack of VitD too, and not just the diet.
Our Government recommends that we all take VitD supplements from Autumn through to Spring.

Vegetarians now know that they have to be aware of the VitB12 lack in our diet, it wasn't always so. Most just ignored the issue entirely.

The report makes mention of socio-economic and educational backgrounds, but it doesn't mention the changing background of the information flow through the years re diet.
Like the specific vitamins, I mean.

M

Pretty sure I remember something on Radio Four mentioning the incidence of rickets amongst coloured people in Glasgow.
Darker skin blocking the sunlight and not producing as much vitamin D as those with light skin.

 

[Janne]

Correct. Not only Ricketts, but the other Vit D deficiency problems
Research seems to indicate that VitD is hugely important for us.

I was at a lecture a few years back, and extensive research show that people with African ancestry with an indoor job and average hobbies start getting a Vit D deficiency above the latitude of Boston.

Translated to Europe that means basically north of mid Italy or the Spanish-French border

 

[Keith_Beef]

Pretty sure I remember something on Radio Four mentioning the incidence of rickets amongst coloured people in Glasgow.
Darker skin blocking the sunlight and not producing as much vitamin D as those with light skin.

It's not exactly new. The Lancet had an article about it in 1973, I seem to remember reading something about it in the 1980s, among some immigrant populations (Bangladeshi, I think) in the UK.

Immigrant populations in the UK tended to keep their traditional diets; for certain populations, the diet was relatively poor in vitamin D. Back in Bangladesh, this would not be a problem as their bodies made up for it. In the UK their bodies couldn't make the vitamin D which is necessary for assimilating calcium. Simple solution was to give vitamin D supplements.

 

[Janne]

A simpler solution is to enrich foods with the vitamins and minerals we have a problem getting.

Modern food fads contribute a lot.
White chicken mean is not as nutritious as Beef/Pork/Lamb liver. Just a simple example.
Plus the light from a screen does not induce the formation of Vit D.

 

[Keith_Beef]

A simpler solution is to enrich foods with the vitamins and minerals we have a problem getting.

Yes, but in the case of immigrant populations sticking to their traditional foods, they might not be consuming the vitamin enriched foods.