Holly?

[quietone]

Hey chaps.
I've had a holly burl for a number of years now, and got around to contemplating a kuksa shape in it. I remember reading that it was safe for a drinking vessel a while back, so proceeded to blunt my knives on it. It was a hard carve, and had to use a ball gauge on it for most of the removal of waste. It turned out to be slightly spalted too. It is a very dry wood, almost as if its been in a kiln. Though thinking about it now, its been in my workshop that gets pretty warm in the summer, and its probably been at least 6 years in there.
What is the consensus on its toxicity? Not finished yet, as you can see from the images. I was going to gift it, but won't if it can't be used as intended.

 

[Mesquite]

From what I can see it's primarily the berries that are the main issue and the leaves can cause gastro issues if ingested.

I'd think if you use a finish on the wood, don't put hot liquids in it and don't gnaw on the wood you should be fine

 

[Robson Valley]

There is a Toxicity Chart in "The Wood Database" (online.) Neither 'Holly' nor "Ilex" (the genus of holly species) appears in the chart. The authors confess that it means no more than nobody has investigated holly.

Spalting is fungus mold rot decomposition. I have seen First Nations water ladles used in Sweat Lodge ceremony but never for direct drinking.

 

[Broch]

I have read that holly wood is toxic in the past, but there was no metric to the statement and I have ignored it simply because the Welsh have been carving eating and cooking implements out of it for thousands of years, and it hasn't done us any harm

 

[quietone]

Thanks everyone. I guess its not fit to gift then. Should have cut it up for handle scales instead.

 

[Robson Valley]

Surely you can carve something more interesting than knife scales? How about needle cases?

 

[Broch]

On the contrary, by the time you've washed it, and sealed it, it will be perfectly safe to drink from. Toxicity is all about amount and frequency and there will not be enough leach out of that piece of wood if you drank out of it every day for a year.

In fact, I have found sites that specifically claim that holly is not toxic so, whatever the truth, it isn't high on the danger scale.

 

[punkrockcaveman]

You could just use it as a bowl for dry goods? Peanuts etc or even keys/bolts/screws and the like. It's got a lovely grain so it should be shown off in some way or other

 

[henchy3rd]

Maybe the misconception comes from Holly(tree)& Ivy(plant)?
I’ve used holly for utensils & beakers with no ill affect. It’s rock hard & has little shrinkage.
I’m not 100% sure about Ivy, but recollect its an irritant to skin & can upset the stomach.(mildly poisonous).
Best to do your own research as I’m no expert.

 

[quietone]

Thanks chaps. Appreciate the suggestions and info. I did actually change my mind on it, and will see it through to the finish and see how it turns out.

 

[Suffolkrafter]

Holly contains cyanogenic glycosides particularly in the berries (among other toxins). I don't know about holly wood, but the wood of wild cherry, for example, contains cyanogenic glycosides in addition to its seeds, so it is certainly a possibility that the wood of holly might also contain them I would be cautious using it for hot drinks, but then I'm somewhat risk averse.

 

[Suffolkrafter]

Having said that, I boil wild cherries including the seeds when I make jam. So while theoretically correct, my previous post really makes not a lot of sense!

 

[Broch]

That's the whole point really; as soon as someone says a plant contains an ingredient that in quantity can kill you, the plant is labelled 'poisonous' when, in reality, most of what we eat could damage us if we ate it in large enough quantities. Hell, even water will kill you if you drink too much too fast!

 

[TLM]

Surprising amount of people are killed by too much salt after a drinking night. If I remember correctly more than from poisonous berries here in Finland.

 

[bobnewboy]

Surprising amount of people are killed by too much salt after a drinking night. If I remember correctly more than from poisonous berries here in Finland.

Salmiak overload?

 

[Buckshot]

Holly contains cyanogenic glycosides particularly in the berries (among other toxins). I don't know about holly wood, but the wood of wild cherry, for example, contains cyanogenic glycosides in addition to its seeds, so it is certainly a possibility that the wood of holly might also contain them I would be cautious using it for hot drinks, but then I'm somewhat risk averse.

IIRC Apple seeds contain it too as do all seeds to some extent! Lots of people eat the entire apple quite happily.
Did i read somewhere Brazil nuts are radioactive?

 

[spandit]

Holly can be used for animal fodder. That's why the leaves on younger plants are so spiky, to stop them being eaten. Look at a mature holly tree and you'll see far fewer prickles.

 

[TLM]

Salmiak overload?

More like this.

 

[bobnewboy]

More like this.

Ohhhhhh, yummy! I developed a taste for salmiak sweets and Koskenkorva (at different times!) while working in Helsinki, but just the neat version of the vodka. Almost no hangover after “quite a night out”.

 

[Suffolkrafter]

IIRC Apple seeds contain it too as do all seeds to some extent! Lots of people eat the entire apple quite happily.
Did i read somewhere Brazil nuts are radioactive?

Very true. You could swallow cherry seeds too as they go straight through you. However, believe it or not, there have been cases of poisoning due to people breaking them up and eating them. Not sure why anyone would do this, but each to their own.
Levels are variable across species and plant parts. I really don't know what levels of cyanogenic glycosides are in the wood of holly, but I'd have thought it's at least worth knowing it's there.