Hilltrek cotton analogy - any good?

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,399
1,688
Cumbria
I've had a few paramo items over the years but I've been reading about Hilltrek's offerings made out of ventile outer layer and the nikwax analogy pump liner.

Does anyone have admit experience of cotton analogy from Hilltrek? How does it perform as a fabric system compared to standard nikwax analogy fully made out of synthetic materials?

Out of curiosity, how does ventile perform relative to say paramo or goretex? Double vs single ventile? I'm guessing that's waterproof vs windproof.

Also how do Hilltrek designs compare with more modern waterproof designs. They seem to be to be traditional design. Features such at hem and waist cinch cords vs more modern just hem cords mark them as traditional plus they're a bit longer I think.
 

lotto

Member
May 22, 2023
18
4
Glasgow
@Paul_B I have direct experience here so hope I can help.

For perspective I had an orange Foinaven smock. It was a medium but was adjusted to have large length arms and body length. Side zips added. This was all easily achieved with a few phone calls. A pleasurable company to deal with.

Unlike yourself I came across from years of Buffalo use. I am a hillwalker. I climb the Munro's summer and winter, long distance multi day walks and walk the dog. I figured the Foinaven would have been the one smock to cover all of this. My preference is smock over jacket.

When it arrived it fitted excellently. It was an item of great quality. You could tell that it would not let you down on the hill. A robust, professional use garment.

The first outing for it was a typical West of Scotland day in late October. Strong winds and lashing rain. Location, Glencoe.

The walk in was dry and it was too warm for the Foinaven, even fully vented. It was put in my bergen. It was not as 'squashy' as a Buffalo. So took up more room. Not an issue for me as I had space, note it was heavier than a Buffalo. Special 6 for reference.

It went back on as required until at the summit it was fully battened down. Honestly, no issues with hem cords etc. They worked extremely efficiently to close the smock down. Very robust too, no chance of failure. Good size that could be operated with gloves on and cold wet hands.

This is when I started to have my issues with it. Please note the smock was in no way at fault. It worked exactly as intended. Just not to my taste.
The rain was driving. Considering wind chill it was around minus 18 at the summit. I had a Brynje winter vest on below. Nothing else.

The properties of the ventile mean that as it gets wet, the fibres close up. I understood this prior to purchase. Practically on the hill though this combined with the cold translates to the jacket going very stiff. Like cardboard whilst being worn. It was an odd sensation. Not one I particularly liked or could get use to. As the altitude decreased coming down and the wind was less in the glens with a higher temperature the smock became less stiff. The fabric loosened off but was cold though where it touched my base layer when moving on areas it hadn't for a while, it gave the sensation of letting in water. I stopped to checked. Totally dry. No rain water, no condensation. A totally nice warm environment. The wetting out sensation I could never get use to. It never let in once though. I don't think it ever would if maintained properley.

I used it three times, every time in this sort of weather. As a smock to keep me dry, no arguments. Performed faultlessly. I could not get use to the stiffness when cold and wet. The apparent wetting out feeling when the stiffening was subsiding.

The issue that prompted me to sell it though was I had wore it 3 times in inclement weather with a bergen weighing around 8kg. All contact points of the bergen, shoulder/hip straps etc the ventile was losing colour. You could see white patches. As explained earlier, this was to be a multi use jacket. It was beginning to look old after 3 uses. I didn't want to go on a dog walk to a cafe for a tea and cake with a jacket that looked worn. Not with the amount of money I spent on it.

I sold it. Moved to Paramo for the first time. Absolutely loved it. The ventilation, the softness, the attention to detail. I had a Velez evolution hybrid smock then an Enduro jacket. Could fault neither apart from maintenance. I used the garments in inclement conditions. I had to reproof every 3rd wear to be confident of 100% performance. I sold them for this reason.

I'm now back at Buffalo. I'm glad I tried other systems, but for me as an individual. I'm a Buffalo fan.

Hope this helps. Any questions, fire away.
 
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C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,618
2,676
Bedfordshire
I have Paramo, and I have a BCUK Ventile. @lotto’s described experience is inline with my expectation regarding the Ventile shell. I have had my Paramo Alta for longer than the Ventile, by years, and have worn it more days per year, but the Ventile has holes worn through at cuffs and hems while the Paramo does not. The Ventile gets stiff in real wet, and the cooling effect of wind on wet cotton means you need more under layers to compensate for the active cooling effect.

When Ventile does what it is “meant” to do in the wet, ie. Wet out and have fibres swell, it ceases to be breathable. Wetted out shells of polyester are the same, but polyester dries faster.

While Nikwax Direct Washin is used for Paramo, I have read that Nikwax is not good on Ventile, that the weave is too tight and it is messy. Not tried it myself, used a Grangers product on the Ventile, but not sure if it is still made, also not sure the Pump Liner will maintain properties without treatment. Oh, and Paramo (and GoreTex) is meant to be maintained by reasonable frequent cleaning with non-detergent soap. The instructions I had for Ventile was not to wash it, just to sponge clean external dirt.
 

Eagleman

Member
Apr 5, 2011
33
3
Aberdeenshire
I've had a single ventile hilltrek jacket for a year and a half. It does get stiff in the wet, but I like everything about it. I don't take it with me if it is going to be very wet. I've just ordered a cotton analogy jacket after looking at a few in store. It will replace a good gortex jacket that has seen better days. Hilltrek is just down the road from me, so hopefully it will be the right jacket for me. Getting it custom measured in store makes a difference and the fit of my other jacket is much better than any other I have had.
 
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Ozmundo

Full Member
Jan 15, 2023
441
348
48
Sussex
I had a westwinds trousers and a hilltrek smock, I liked them for the situations I was going through damp undergrowth. Great for wind resistance but not my first choice for proper rain due to the "cardboardiness" and time it took to dry.

I sold them because, oddly, they seemed to get narrower overtime. ;)
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,399
1,688
Cumbria
I'm curious because my paramo velez lite whatsitcalled smock isn't standing up to commuting with a rucksack. Two years and the lower back has worn badly. It's a bright orange except the lower back which has an almost white sheen to it. I think I need something more durable. Plus longer but that's another issue with paramo.
 

lotto

Member
May 22, 2023
18
4
Glasgow
@Paul_B how are you commuting with a rucsac? Walking or cycling?& I think if cycling two years would be telling on any garment. Walking, then high end jackets should not look worn at two years chosen carefully.
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,618
2,676
Bedfordshire
In fairness, my durable Paramo is the standard heavier stuff. I have a Velez Lite Mk1 and the outer is indeed very thin. I wear it much less. I am not a fan of smocks compared to jackets, but the Velez fits, and was cheap when I bought it. I have read accounts of people getting wet in the Lite version in driving rain.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,399
1,688
Cumbria
@Paul_B how are you commuting with a rucsac? Walking or cycling?& I think if cycling two years would be telling on any garment. Walking, then high end jackets should not look worn at two years chosen carefully.
Mostly train with 6 minutes ride to work and a minute from home to the station. Not really intensive but it is the lighter analogy version.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,399
1,688
Cumbria
My velez was cheap too, I didn't have money for the top of the range, more durable versions, evolution something. The other cheaper stuff from paramo doesn't fit me like the velez lite does. The issue with paramo is the let's just say baggy fit across most of their range which is less effective I reckon than a good fit waterproof.

I find they still need work on fit with more athletic fit options.

My other paramo is original alta from early 90s as in the beginning of paramo. Certainly more durable but jeez what a baggy sack of a jacker! Terrible sizing I reckon.
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,618
2,676
Bedfordshire
My Alta was from 2001.
Velez fits me, but my view is that most of current Paramo offerings are a so-called “athletic” fit, high under the arms and tight across the shoulders, and don’t fit me worth spit, which is weird since I am far from rotund and shoulder fit would be worse if I were Dorito torsoed athletic build.

My Velez Lite is Mk1 style and I got it on clearance from a retailer. I have never thought of it as cheap, as in inferior, to the heavier or more expensive garments. It was meant to be lighter. Apparently large olive smocks were not popular enough with the Chiltern dog walking set!
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,399
1,688
Cumbria
I don't see them as athletic. Most paramo jackets fit baggy around the body and imho suit people more broad about the torso. I fit medium in terms of torso fit but large even xl on arm and torso length. However if I wear even a large the torso has way too big a girth.

Imho athletic fit is about the slimmer torso. The velez light is still baggy but it does have a slightly more athletic fit imho than ordinary velez, alta x and cascada. A few years back when I got my latest paramo the website for the brand used standard and athletic fit. Velez adventyre light and the high mountain model enduro I think were the only ones I to be called athletic fit. That was buried in the writeup but I can't find it now so perhaps they've taken it out now.

Paramo is practically the only mid to top waterproof brand that to me has such a strange fit.
 

Eagleman

Member
Apr 5, 2011
33
3
Aberdeenshire
I received my hilltrek jacket on Monday. I haven't done more than an hour in the rain walking the dog, but it was fully waterproof during that time. I'm sure in longer it would wet out. It is a lot heavier than a synthetic, but it is warmer too. I don't think I have ever had such an exquisitely made item of clothing. I am 6 ft 1 and about 16 stone and getting measured there came out with a ustom fit that is fantastic. It's a large, but longer and in other brands I would usually be an XL to get the length and end up with something baggy. I think it will be a firm favourite.
 

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