Highway Interchange

[cbr6fs]

LOL. You actually believe that NY drivers are good drivers!? California is the home of the true auto culture while the southern states have always been the feeders for new NASCAR talent.

"Slow" speeds? The speed limit on most Interstates is 70mph with a 10mph grace before the police bother to pull anybody over. That said, on those "long straight roads" (they're mostly out west) the average speed is in excess of 85mph. There is no speed limit in a couple of western states.

The thing is the drivers in New York HAVE to concentrate or they get eaten alive, so they tend to be more aware.

California is a nightmare to drive in, i've been involved in 3 fender benders there, every single one was down to the driver of the other vehicle not concentrating.
It's gotten to the point where i no longer rely on lifts into work when i visit there i'd sooner rent a car.


I don't think that an areas standards of driving is best judged by how many successful racing drivers are from there.
Although driving standards in the Scandinavian countries is exceptional in my experience, they've also been pretty successful at rallying over the years.

As you know the various speed limits across your country vary tremendously, likewise the "grace" given by LEO's.

In California we most of the urban freeways are restricted to 55mph, which for a clear straight multi-laned road feels very veryyyyyyy slow.


The biggest problem i've come across with drivers in the USA is simply lack of concentration, but as i say i have noticed that the this is getting to be the case in the UK now as well.

I think part of the problem is that folks are bored, cars no longer need the skill and concentration levels they once did due to ABS, traction control, stability control etc etc.
The other thing is that 15+ years ago there were very very few speed cameras in the UK, so people tended to pick their speed to suit the conditions, roads and weather they were driving in.
They also needed to keep their eye out for speed traps which sprung up pretty much anywhere.

All this meant that people generally felt they were responsible for their and the people around them safety.

Now days if you asked 50 drivers what kills in a car crash i'd bet 45 would say speed.
This is absolute nonsense as it's bad driving that kills not speed and there are no cameras invented yet that detect bad driving.

I remember getting a speeding ticket in Oklahoma on my fully loaded up touring pushbike

 

[Zingmo]

... it's bad driving that kills not speed ...

If you are going too fast to stop, then you can die from someone else's bad driving. The prevalence of poor driving means that even good drivers cannot safely go fast.

Z

 

[cbr6fs]

If you are going too fast to stop, then you can die from someone else's bad driving.

If you are going to fast to stop (be that because of the road conditions or visibility) then you're driving badly.

The prevalence of poor driving means that even good drivers cannot safely go fast.

If good drivers cannot go fast safely then why are the police, ambulances and fire engines allowed to travel well in excess of the speed limit?

I'm not suggesting that speed limits be ignored, i'm suggesting that the motto "speed kills" is both incorrect and it has lured people into a false sense of security.
In that they believe if they drive slow they are safe and anyone that dares to drive slightly faster is irresponsible, stupid and needs to be punished (hence the propensity of "jobs worths" flashing their lights, speeding up to close the overtaking gap to the car in front, hand signs and blocking manoeuvres that jerks do when someone dares to overtake on a clear straight stretch of road).

 

[mrcharly]

If good drivers cannot go fast safely then why are the police, ambulances and fire engines allowed to travel well in excess of the speed limit?

In the UK, they aren't.

Police who have received advanced training in certain circumstances are allowed to exceed speed limits.
Excess speed is bad driving - but then what do you think the limits are for? In most places they are the safe maximum speed.

I will agree that on clear motorways it is safe to greatly exceed 70mph, but then when are they ever clear?

 

[cbr6fs]

In the UK, they aren't.

Police who have received advanced training in certain circumstances are allowed to exceed speed limits.
Excess speed is bad driving - but then what do you think the limits are for? In most places they are the safe maximum speed.

I will agree that on clear motorways it is safe to greatly exceed 70mph, but then when are they ever clear?

I'm sorry but the first 2 lines are a complete contradiction.

Of course there needs to be special circumstances i think that's common sense, they are still allowed to travel at well in excess of the speed limits in those "special circumstances" though, that's the point i was trying to put to Zingmo

Excess speed is not bad driving, excess speed at the wrong times, in the wrong conditions in the wrong areas is bad driving.

As an example there is a school near my Old gals house just outside Derby, i wince every time i see a car drive past at school kicking out times, there have been a few close calls, they have tried speed bumps, flashing lights etc but still at kicking out times for that 20min period i'd argue that 20mph is too fast.

At 3am i'd also argue that if the driver is skilled, experienced and is concentrating 50mph is safe, as it's long straight wide road with a good road surface.

Obviously that argument would not stand up in a court of law, but i strongly believe that someone driving slightly over the speed limit of a clear road with good conditions and visibility is safer than someone that's nattering away to their passenger, changing a radio station, lighting a fag, eating a sandwich or is in the middle of a 1000 yard state trance.

As a cyclist and motorbiker the standard car driver response after someone hits you is "sorry mate i just didn't see you there" it's not "sorry mate i was driving too fast"

Which gives my point that drivers are no longer concentrating as they should be more credence.

 

[mrcharly]

I'm sorry but the first 2 lines are a complete contradiction.

Of course there needs to be special circumstances i think that's common sense, they are still allowed to travel at well in excess of the speed limits in those "special circumstances" though, that's the point i was trying to put to Zingmo

Nothing to do with 'common sense', these are officers with specific training and only in specifically designated circumstances is it ok for them to speed. If they do it outside of these specific circumstances they can be subject to the same penalties as anyone else.

 

[John Fenna]

What scared me as a passenger in vehicles in the USA was food and drink ... in Boston the driver navigated the city streets with a coffee in one hand and a bagel in the other while further west another driver was driving with a Taco in one hand and a Dr Pepper in the other ... both in heavy traffic and while talking and pointing out the local sights.
I was the one concentrating on the traffic.
I am not saying this kind of thing does not happen world wide but over there it seemed to be common and the other passengers (locals) did not seem to find it out of the ordinary!

 

[santaman2000]

The thing is the drivers in New York HAVE to concentrate or they get eaten alive, so they tend to be more aware......

New Yorkers drive with their horns and their middle fingers. Alertness has nothing to do with it.

 

[santaman2000]

.....California is a nightmare to drive in, i've been involved in 3 fender benders there, every single one was down to the driver of the other vehicle not concentrating.
It's gotten to the point where i no longer rely on lifts into work when i visit there i'd sooner rent a car......

A bit of a contradiction there. California is a nightmare to drive in but you'd rather rent a car than have somebody else drive? Also seems to infer that renting a car wouldn't be your first choice elsewhere? Renting a car will always be the first choice for real drivers.

 

[santaman2000]

.......I don't think that an areas standards of driving is best judged by how many successful racing drivers are from there.....

Of course it is. If the racing is NASCAR.

 

[cbr6fs]

Nothing to do with 'common sense', these are officers with specific training and only in specifically designated circumstances is it ok for them to speed. If they do it outside of these specific circumstances they can be subject to the same penalties as anyone else.

Struggling to see what point you are trying to make, my statement was

the police, ambulances and fire engines allowed to travel well in excess of the speed limit?

Nothing you've said so far disputes this, the only dispensation being in special circumstances which as i said i think is common sense.

What scared me as a passenger in vehicles in the USA was food and drink ... in Boston the driver navigated the city streets with a coffee in one hand and a bagel in the other while further west another driver was driving with a Taco in one hand and a Dr Pepper in the other ... both in heavy traffic and while talking and pointing out the local sights.
I was the one concentrating on the traffic.
I am not saying this kind of thing does not happen world wide but over there it seemed to be common and the other passengers (locals) did not seem to find it out of the ordinary!

+1

It's really weird seeing the different mentality of drivers as well.
When i stayed with my friend in California the folks i got a lift with treated driving like most UK drivers would treat getting on a bus.
They were eating, texting, talking on the phone, chatting to each other while holding eye contact, faffing about with clothing.
Pretty much anything BUT concentrate on driving.

It was like they felt the task was so boring they NEEDED a distraction.
Scary scary stuff.

New Yorkers drive with their horns and their middle fingers. Alertness has nothing to do with it.

Surely they need to be alert to sound the horn though

In all seriousness mate, sure they do gesticulate a fair bit, but you really have to be on your A game to drive in New York otherwise you'll get eaten alive.

One of the friends i stayed with in California absolutely 100% refused to drive there, i found it kinda fun meself.
I'd sooner drive through New York than through LA for sure.

 

[santaman2000]

........As you know the various speed limits across your country vary tremendously, likewise the "grace" given by LEO's.

In California we most of the urban freeways are restricted to 55mph, which for a clear straight multi-laned road feels very veryyyyyyy slow.......

No, the speed limits don't vary widely. The Interstates (motorways) are standard at 70 throughout most of the country with the exception of maybe two western states that have NO speed limits on them. That limit is reduced to 55 inside city limits around the country (as you mention about the urban freeay) which contrary to your description is not an ordinary" straight multi-laned road." It's a congested traffic area.

Yes the grace amount given by LEOs varies a bit. It's 10 mph in Fl simply because the Fl traffic code prescribes $0 fine and 0 points deducted from your license for anything less. It wouldn't be worth my time giving a ticket for anything that wouldn't result in punishment anyway. That said, most states are either 10mph or 5 mph for the minimum grace. The reralk variance is the cops' ability to use discretion and give even more leeway if the circumstances allow.

 

[Harvestman]

Worst bit of driving I ever saw was driver and passenger having a conversation in sign language, both of them using both hands! Sign language requires that you look at the other person too. I was glad I was seeing it in my rearview mirror.

 

[santaman2000]

.......The biggest problem i've come across with drivers in the USA is simply lack of concentration, but as i say i have noticed that the this is getting to be the case in the UK now as well.......

Agreed. The current predominant distraction seems to be texting.

What scared me as a passenger in vehicles in the USA was food and drink ... in Boston the driver navigated the city streets with a coffee in one hand and a bagel in the other while further west another driver was driving with a Taco in one hand and a Dr Pepper in the other ... both in heavy traffic and while talking and pointing out the local sights.
I was the one concentrating on the traffic.
I am not saying this kind of thing does not happen world wide but over there it seemed to be common and the other passengers (locals) did not seem to find it out of the ordinary!

John the other passengers didn't find it out of the ordinary for a simple reason: it's not. I can both eat and concentrate at the same time. I can also walk and chew gum at the same time while carrying on a conversation.

 

[santaman2000]

.......Surely they need to be alert to sound the horn though ......

Nah. Just turn on the ignition and keep your hand on the horn in a rhythmic manner. LOL. Agreed thought that NY is a tough place to drive. I really don't like to drive in any congested areas. Not in NY, nor LA, nor London, etc.

 

[santaman2000]

Worst bit of driving I ever saw was driver and passenger having a conversation in sign language, both of them using both hands! Sign language requires that you look at the other person too. I was glad I was seeing it in my rearview mirror.

Now that's funny.

 

[cbr6fs]

No, the speed limits don't vary widely. The Interstates (motorways) are standard at 70 throughout most of the country with the exception of maybe two western states that have NO speed limits on them. That limit is reduced to 55 inside city limits around the country (as you mention about the urban freeay) which contrary to your description is not an ordinary" straight multi-laned road." It's a congested traffic area.

Yes the grace amount given by LEOs varies a bit. It's 10 mph in Fl simply because the Fl traffic code prescribes $0 fine and 0 points deducted from your license for anything less. It wouldn't be worth my time giving a ticket for anything that wouldn't result in punishment anyway. That said, most states are either 10mph or 5 mph for the minimum grace. The reralk variance is the cops' ability to use discretion and give even more leeway if the circumstances allow.

Just double checked as it's been a few years since i last travelled across America and as far as wiki goes you are wrong mate

I can't find any evidence that shows there is no speed limit in some states either

It's all by the by though as it doesn't really pertain to my point.

 

[santaman2000]

Just double checked as it's been a few years since i last travelled across America and as far as wiki goes you are wrong mate

I can't find any evidence that shows there is no speed limit in some states either

It's all by the by though as it doesn't really pertain to my point.

Actually that chart shows I'm right; thanks for finding and posting it. 70mph (or even 75mph) in most of the country, and only a 5mph variance elsewhere outside congested areas or Hawaii (hardly a "wide" variance) I just looked up the "no speed limit" bit also. It seems that Wyoming had to rescind that due to court decisions. The old limit (for Interstates) simply read "reasonable and prudent" and Montana said something similar. But apparently an individual who received a ticket for speeding contested it saying that his speed was indeed reasonable and prudent. The court decided that the limit as written was unenforceable as it was "vague, arbitrary, and/or subjective."

I daresay the chart isn't the entire picture though as it leaves out Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands which all probably have lower speed limits. But then again, they also have no Interstate Highways.

 

[cbr6fs]

Actually that chart shows I'm right; thanks for finding and posting it. 70mph (or even 75mph) in most of the country, and only a 5mph variance elsewhere outside congested areas or Hawaii (hardly a "wide" variance) I just looked up the "no speed limit" bit also. It seems that Wyoming had to rescind that due to court decisions. The old limit (for Interstates) simply read "reasonable and prudent" and Montana said something similar. But apparently an individual who received a ticket for speeding contested it saying that his speed was indeed reasonable and prudent. The court decided that the limit as written was unenforceable as it was "vague, arbitrary, and/or subjective."

I daresay the chart isn't the entire picture though as it leaves out Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands which all probably have lower speed limits. But then again, they also have no Interstate Highways.

Mate, i think it's time to get your eyes retested

Slowest 60mph, fastest 80mph.
That's a 25mph difference or just under 50% of the slowest speed limit.

As i say though it really doesn't make any difference to my point that coming from the UK to drive in most US states it feels soooooo slooowwwwwwwww.

Be that freeway speeds or driving in general

 

[Robbi]

Mate, i think it's time to get your eyes retested

Slowest 60mph, fastest 80mph

Looks like 85 mph to me