Have I just invented something....

[1jack1pike]

So here goes.... (I have a dodgy 's' key so dont hate me to much!! )

In my "personal opinion" there are bushcrafters and hikers and it seems that the two never cross?

The bushcrafter will undoubtedly walk to his 'place' and do whatever he want to meanwhile the hiker will storm straight past with intent to cover the next 15 miles before he wakes up.

Its similar with equipment, dare I say it - most bushcrafters will go for more traditional, earthy, canvasy, harder wearing... call it what you will equipment, whilst mr hiker will 'tend' to go for high tec, bright red, lightweight sort of kit. I know there are exceptions but I am seriously generalising these stereotype here!... but the two never seem to cross, why cant we have a 'old fashioned' pack that IS comfortable and wont break me like some birch bark.

I know a fair few of you like to do both activities, which is great - but not many people appear to do them at the same time?
In my experience very few people go on hikes be it for a day or a month with the bare essentials we all take everything along meanwhile when we go bushcrafting we take (I do) as little as I can get away with to home my skill at doing xy&z.

So this is a really long winded way of asking why dont people do both? Why dont we take our knife and funny looking hat and go on an expedition? Yes it will take us more time to collect wood, make shelter and all the rest (which means we cant cover as much ground in a day) but it must be more "realistic" approach - Is the idea behind bushcraft is the "simple way" and "how they used to do it" and sitting round a camp fire for (dont hunt me down for saying this)... for no obvious reason... was probably rarely practised. Where as exploring the new land or hunting for the kings lunch (other monarch are available) is more likely to of been the case, and without all the new fangled technology they would of been using the primitive ways of surviving.

Now there must be people out there that do this.... so why is it such a secret cult? or are my google fu kills just that bad??

I think this makes sense.... it did before I wrote it down.... :aargh4:

 

[Toddy]

It's called going walkabout

M

 

[Man of Tanith]

and its a very tempting idea quite often....

I'm currently reading a book where the author and two others opt out to live and practice primative living skills. its written laetly as a diary/journal and has essays on the various skills described by the writer.

I reckon it appeals to a lot o folk but they haven't necessarily the time spare or they have limitations holding em back be it work/family/money/lack of confidence in skills etc.

 

[Man of Tanith]

also have a look at the boone challenge which kinda covers some of it

 

[Macaroon]

My first thought on reading this post was that one of the main reasons for not doing it in England and Wales isthe lack of availability of sites to wild camp legally; far too easy for most folk to get caught out too often at the end of a long hike having to spend hours searching for a pitch that can be used legally.All the pleasure very quickly evaporates, on the short days especially, when you have to go through all that at the end of a long hike!

You can only realistically do it if you know you are likely to find a legal place to stop and eat and sleep in peace; and as we all know illegal wild camping is not encouraged or endorsed on this forum.............

 

[1jack1pike]

Oooh, what book is that Man of Tanith?? Sounds a good read! The idea behind the boone challenge is sort of what I meant! I came across Copperhead's trip report on that and it pretty much sums up what I am thinking. As you can see its raining and I have been watching LOTR's ( the need for adventure is kicking in) .... so I think I will need to try this soon!

I suppose time is a good factor, but I dont think it should limit people? Surly if I spend 24 hours outside its 24 hours outside - regardles of how I spend it. Crossing the whole of India may be a bit to far, but if I was going to do this - which I think I will - I would only cover say 8-10 miles or so, maybe a little less on a first attempt, camp up and go home a different way the next night, it would barely take me the weekend. But I see how time is a concern, its a shame really that we shall all be governed by out watches.

I think confidence would be my let down, I need a lot more practice before I can cut my kit completely of the essentials



The camping would be a problem yes. It has no way of being over come really, not without a lot of planning and puppy dog look to land owners or a train journey to Scotland. on A side note... what are the legalities of wild camping in the lakes? When I did my Gold D of E a few years back we wild camped all over the place (as grown ups who are "always" right told us it was fine we never questioned it)... recently I was looking for places to wild camp and I found out that its not allowed?

 

[Teepee]

Hikers, generally, like to hike through the nice bits. Nice bits in our country are plentiful but when they are shared around the 65 odd million of us, there's not much each. I'd dearly love to be able to go out and be able to make a camp with my axe and travel freely and primitively but it's just not doable in the UK without taking far more than a fair share of natural resources. Very soon, our nice bits would be ravaged.

It's hard enough sometimes to find a decent place to hang my hammock between 2 suitable trees when I'm hiking, let alone enough to make a camp and to do it legally is very difficult. Morally even more so for me.

You make a good point 1jack. It's one of the biggest reasons why I love winter travel in the colder parts of the world-it allows the distances to be covered efficiently whilst utilising elements of 'bushcraft'. Often camping in the frozen boggy areas that are out of bounds to hikers and most visitors most of the year impacts much less on the environment.

I actually think the mindset of the lightweight hiker fits well with the simple bushcraft ethos. Both groups endeavour to carry the minimum amount of kit needed to live outdoors and there is crossover too with navigation skills, water procurement, camp (dis in my case)organisation, first aid, load carrying, cooking to name just a few.

 

[weekender]

I was under the impression you can wild camp in the lakes above a certain height??? Don't hold me to that I could be wrong I'm sure someone will now for certain.


Sent from somewhere?

 

[copper_head]

. I'd dearly love to be able to go out and be able to make a camp with my axe and travel freely and primitively but it's just not doable in the UK without taking far more than a fair share of natural resources. Very soon, our nice bits would be ravaged.

Sums it up for me.

 

[Teepee]

I was under the impression you can wild camp in the lakes above a certain height??? Don't hold me to that I could be wrong I'm sure someone will now for certain.


Sent from somewhere?

It's still not legal, but tolerated. General rule is if it's half a days walk up into the hills then it's ok as long as the usual LNT pack it in, pack it out is followed. Often by the busy bits, rangers will visit but if you are doing as you are aksed by leaving no trace, camping late and leaving early, then in my experience it's no issue.

 

[Man of Tanith]

cant remember off top me head.
I'll look tonight and post the whole shebang title author and isbn.

 

[Man of Tanith]

Book-
wilderness survival living off the land with the clothes on your back and the knife on your belt
authors- Mark Elbroch and Mike Pewtherer

isbn978-0-07-145331-8

 

[jonny the monkey]

In my experience the hiking tends to include a lighter pack weight and a greater speed of travel. Whereas the bushcraft weekender seems to be about getting comfy in the woods and taking a more relaxed pace.

I recently spent a couple of months walking through Spain and not knowing how long my journey would be, with limited funds, I carried everything I would need for 3 season travel. This has has the benefit of not having to purchase new gear for changes in season, but the downside is you end up carrying more equipment.

We were averaging about 15km a day. This includes days when we didn't move on and days when we walked much further than we would have liked. Whilst it was all fairly fantastic there was only one real problem with it.

The days spent walking, were just that. You get up, eat, pack down, walk. Eat. Walk. Set up, eat and sleep. Now the idea was to walk, and this idea alone was enough of a motivator on tough days to keep going, but we found hardly any time to do anything else.

Unless we stopped walking for a day or 2, even a week or so. But then you find your not moving anywhere and the cycle is a hard one to harmonise with.

So I guess to tie this all together what I'm saying is, if you plan on doing something like this, plan in some time to chill out in the forest if you get to a nice location. It doesn't matter if you spend a month rooted in one spot if you don't care about making mileage everyday. I think this is where the balance is found. We discovered it in the end, but we had the luxury of time on our side

EDIT:
I think it also depends on what you want to achieve with the bushcraft. The hike presumably already has an end goal. If before setting out you say what you want to accomplish with the bushy side of things and you know you have 3 months to reach your destination and complete your check list then thats probably the best bet for blending the two together. I'm, not really one for planning though, tend to keep learning the hard way

 

[cjackson]

I think it mostly comes down to pack weight and the area you wish walk/ camp in. I tend not to go straight to my chosen camp area but walk maybe 15-20 miles a day to it. Mainly around the peak district, well there's quite a few wooded areas so finding a secluded spot tends not to be a problem if you're smart about it. The past few times we have called in at a pub for the usual couple of post walk refreshments (ale) and spoken to some local framers and they were quite happy for us to use there land if we stayed away form their livestock mainly.

When I'm doing this I usually carry 15 to 20 kg. Everything I need to camp and food etc. We usually venture out for 2-3 days, depending on the season the weight varies considerably. My kit is a mix of traditional and the modern lightweight alternatives. Granted if I was camping closer to home a may take a few more luxuries, thicker matt etc but if you are willing to make a few sacrifices covering a lot of ground and finding places to hahem cough wild camp cough is possible.
I'm aware this is probably not possible in some areas of England.

 

[oldtimer]

I suggest that you have a look at Paul Kirtley's blog. His lecture deals very well with this. It is typical of his common sense approach and is, as usual, well and entertainly expressed.

 

[boatman]

This is what I liked about the Ridgeway and other routes over the Downs. Walked long distances but made a twig wigwam fire for brews etc. Left no trace. Only time moved on was by the warden on what would be a SSI now. No antagonism, he just directed us to where there was no objection to camping.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

This sort of thing perhaps? On Dartmoor, where I know you can legally wild camp. There are some restrictions of course, and you can't go around lighting fires wherever you please. It's quite an inspiring video though; well filmed too.

[video=youtube;XNlRJ7-VAcA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNlRJ7-VAcA&list=LLZFS6k3PECNP3xwbQh8Yn-g&index=33[/video]

 

[rg598]

I'm not sure I completely understand the question. Maybe I just don't understand what defines bushcraft as opposed to hiking. I don't think there is any philosophical difference between hiking (long distance backpacking) and bushcraft. Both strive (in theory) to use the minimum of gear, and to utilize wilderness skills instead. For me personally bushcraft does not require that I use gear from the past century, so I make no distinction between the two. I travel through the woods to get where I need to go, or to hunt, etc. I use certain wilderness skills (bushcraft) to help me do that.

The differences come in the application. These days bushcraft has moved quite a bit away from this minimalistic approach. It is not uncommon to see people going on bushcraft trips with packs larger than their own bodies. I think in some way we have altered the use of the word "bushcraft" precisely so that we can apply it to activities that do not involve hiking. I think it's a game of definitions at this point. If you define bushcraft as an activity which requires that I wear natural materials and construct natural shelters, then necessarily it is not going to be compatible with hiking. If on the other hand we define bushcraft as a set of wilderness skills, then it is completely compatible with hiking, and is done all the time.

Add to that, the activity we performs will largely govern what gear we carry and what we use. If you in fact want to cover distance, or have to cover distance (limited water sources, climbing a mountain, limited food supply, etc) then that will greatly impact your gear choices. Gear will have to become lighter and more compact, as well as more easily set up. I can't spend four hours each day constructing a lean-to shelter with an axe if I actually need to get somewhere.

Again, maybe I'm just completely off because I have misunderstood the question.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

ah yes, "what is bushcraft?"; the single point to which all other questions on here resolve if you let them!

I'll shut up quick!

 

[Quixoticgeek]

It's an interesting question. Where does hiking stop and bushcraft begin? is there a line? To me bushcraft is a mindset more than anything else. Lightweight hiking tends to come close in many ways to the bushcraft mindset.

Why do you not find people walking the southdown way carrying just a knife, building their shelter, making their fire and finding their food? Because our landscape is not a natural one any more. The amount of woodland you need to make a shelter each night just isn't there, or if it is, wouldn't last very long if we all chopped bits down to make our lean to... Light a fire next to that shelter? frowned upon here. Want to find your own food? Good luck. There is so little natural land for you to forage on, and hunting is more likely to be poaching... So where as you might venture into the northern forests with just an axe and a knife, play the fiddle to make fire, use pine boughs to build your shelter etc... That's just a lot more difficult in the UK.

So you carry your bivvi bag and tarp, you carry a small stove, you realise that the stove only needs twigs, so you leave the axe at home... and now your the only difference between your bushcraft gear and that of a hiker? The colour... Bushcrafters tend to prefer earthy tones, greens, browns, khakis, blacks. Where as some hikers like their YELLOW! and BLUE! and RED!. Personally it drives me nuts. Why do exped insist on making their Synmats YELLOW? why is the ladies exped lightning only available in BLUE or RED ?

To me I find it visual pollution when you've climbed up that hill, and you take in the view, and it's peppered with little red blotches as hikers wander across the hillside before you. Why did people insist on pitching their bright red tent on that hill? Grumble grumble argh...

Julia