flint knapping help please

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kb31

Forager
Jun 24, 2006
152
2
by the lakes
hi dos anyone know about heating flint up so it's more easy to knapp?
i seen it on a usa site but i've never seen it in a book or anywhere
how is this done? or can be done?
thanks alot if anyone knows/could help
karl
 
Heat treating is often done on certain North American cherts. It can improve the stone's knapping characteristics but arrow points made from it are also more fragile. Some varieties of stone are not improved at all or worse, can be ruined by heating. I have not heard of heat treating having been being applied to English flint. I worked a chalky nodule of grey/black English flint a few years ago and suspect that it like Onondaga Chert would not respond well to heat treating.

Here is some additional information on the process.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/5685/stonetools.html

http://wings.buffalo.edu/anthropology/Lithics/Files/thermal.pdf
 

kb31

Forager
Jun 24, 2006
152
2
by the lakes
thanks for the links and help jeff
i may try a bit to see what happens
if you don't try you won't know so they say?
thanks alot anyway mate
..karl
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
I tried flintknapping in the summer at the Bushmoot, and despite the tremendous efforts of John and Val Lord, the best I could manage were sharp edged cudgels! It was the best way I've yet encountered of making huge piles of dangerous gravel :eek: though the guys around me came up with all sorts of pointy goodies, I just couldn't get the hang of it.
I did feel somewhat mittigated when, as a demonstration, John took a large nodule and reduced it to firstly a big axe, then a small axe and then finally a spear point as things didn't go fully to his plan.
You have my respect (as does anyone) if you can knap away to a plan!

Good Luck

Ogri the trog
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,638
S. Lanarkshire
Considering that it could be as lethal as a hand grenade, does flint shatter into effectively useable pieces if put into a fire? Would it, just for curiosity, shatter if it were put wet into a pit of hot coals? when it cooled would the pieces still be relatively all together so they could be found?

Cheers,
Toddy
 

Exbomz

Full Member
Oct 19, 2004
198
0
East Sussex
Hi

I have done a lot of serious trials & experiments with heat treating british rocks. There are plus sides to it but it does make the rock more brittle, so flakes/pieces can snap more easily. I have tried many types of rock and with a few exceptions, it does work. Temps needed are easily achieved in a domestic oven but we used a computer controlled kiln as a base so we could be exact and replicate conditions.

Use a metal container filled with sand. This stops dangers from any that may go 'pop' and also the sand evens out the rate at which heat reaches the rocks. If you use a baking tin, ensure there is a good layer of sand between tin and rocks (inch plus) and all gaps are sand filled. Do not use preforms more than an inch thick - they will often appear as OK on the outside but the rock seems unable to cope with the expansion etc. You start knapping a piece and then get to the middle and only to find 'crazing paving'.

First thing is to dry everything, so a soak period on heat, maybe 80C for up to 8 hrs to dry sand and get rid of moisture, and then slow temp raising. About 25C per hour max and then up to ceiling temps. This we found to be best for most of the rocks we tried to be about 220C and then hold there for about 4+ hours. If the container is big, used longer times to ensure the heat gets through.

Some US info suggests ramping down the temps as well. We did not find this necessary. Turn off the heat and then leave to cool for 24 hrs. Do not open the oven - cool too fast and they will crack. Then once cool, knap away :rolleyes:

These are a few points I have knapped out after treating but this group does not include any true flint. It does work for flint though if you have good flint to start with, I am not sure of any real benefit (a lot of effort for little gain). In other rocks, escpecially some of the cherts agates, it does make the stone work more easily (or even workable at all), often (not always) creats a glassy appearance and it can change the colours, especially iron oxides in the rock. On true flint, it has varying effects on the ghosts in the flint - the grey areas which are probably casts of burrows. Sometimes it will help, but often make no difference. You can get a good idea if it will do any good on the raw flint: if flakes tear across the ghosts, then it is unlikley heating will achieve anything.

my.php


Many of the British cherts and agates do improve considerably and I can recommend the effort but trouble is, you have to try it first with your local rock to see whether it works in the first place :eek: .

Hope that helps.

PS I may be able to 'pdf' a paper I wrote on this and post it but it is on the work PC if you are interested. (technicalities allowing!)
 

kb31

Forager
Jun 24, 2006
152
2
by the lakes
Exbomz said:
Hi

I have done a lot of serious trials & experiments with heat treating british rocks. There are plus sides to it but it does make the rock more brittle, so flakes/pieces can snap more easily. I have tried many types of rock and with a few exceptions, it does work. Temps needed are easily achieved in a domestic oven but we used a computer controlled kiln as a base so we could be exact and replicate conditions.

Use a metal container filled with sand. This stops dangers from any that may go 'pop' and also the sand evens out the rate at which heat reaches the rocks. If you use a baking tin, ensure there is a good layer of sand between tin and rocks (inch plus) and all gaps are sand filled. Do not use preforms more than an inch thick - they will often appear as OK on the outside but the rock seems unable to cope with the expansion etc. You start knapping a piece and then get to the middle and only to find 'crazing paving'.

First thing is to dry everything, so a soak period on heat, maybe 80C for up to 8 hrs to dry sand and get rid of moisture, and then slow temp raising. About 25C per hour max and then up to ceiling temps. This we found to be best for most of the rocks we tried to be about 220C and then hold there for about 4+ hours. If the container is big, used longer times to ensure the heat gets through.

Some US info suggests ramping down the temps as well. We did not find this necessary. Turn off the heat and then leave to cool for 24 hrs. Do not open the oven - cool too fast and they will crack. Then once cool, knap away :rolleyes:

These are a few points I have knapped out after treating but this group does not include any true flint. It does work for flint though if you have good flint to start with, I am not sure of any real benefit (a lot of effort for little gain). In other rocks, escpecially some of the cherts agates, it does make the stone work more easily (or even workable at all), often (not always) creats a glassy appearance and it can change the colours, especially iron oxides in the rock. On true flint, it has varying effects on the ghosts in the flint - the grey areas which are probably casts of burrows. Sometimes it will help, but often make no difference. You can get a good idea if it will do any good on the raw flint: if flakes tear across the ghosts, then it is unlikley heating will achieve anything.

my.php


Many of the British cherts and agates do improve considerably and I can recommend the effort but trouble is, you have to try it first with your local rock to see whether it works in the first place :eek: .

Hope that helps.

PS I may be able to 'pdf' a paper I wrote on this and post it but it is on the work PC if you are interested. (technicalities allowing!)
thanks but there's no way am puting flint in an kitchen oven! :eek:
i like my house the way it is
 

kb31

Forager
Jun 24, 2006
152
2
by the lakes
thanks for the help guys
the plan is-
dig a deep pit and light a fire in it for a bit
let it die down til good coals cover them with sand
drop the flint in and fill in the pit (fast!)
walk-run away
dig up when cold
i know it's a bit low tec but am not puting it in a oven
i seem to make more bits than flakes
i watched karl lee at WG and ray's dvd bit on it
maybe am hitting it wrong?
i'll see how it gos may work may not
has any one got a EOD suit? or one of them robots? :D
let yous know what happens if not am in a+e!
..karl
 

steve a

Settler
Oct 2, 2003
819
13
south bedfordshire
Flint explodes and shatters with spectacular energy when heated up, a large nodule can send shards over many meters at a very high velocity.I know this from personal experience having worked and conducted research in the quarrying and heavy building materials sector for many years. I would suggest in the interests of your own safety you perfect your knapping techniques rather than heat flint up in order to shatter it. A good start would be John or Will Lords web site where you can purchase some good books to explain the basics.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,638
S. Lanarkshire
Exbomz that's beautiful work :D .
Thank you for the info on rock working too and I'd love to have aread of the pdf.

Cheers,
Toddy
 

Exbomz

Full Member
Oct 19, 2004
198
0
East Sussex
Guys and gals.

The flint should not 'explode' if the preforms are 1 inch or less thick, there is a sufficient sand 'bath', giving insulation and mediating the heat transfer to the rock, and the heating is gentle to start with to dry it, then the temp raised gently, and you will be OK. If you want to cover the tin for peace of mind, please do - a metal plate over the top will contain the rock. When we had failures during the trials, they resulted in broken pieces but all remained within the tin. The thinner the rock to start with the less chance of any breakage.

I have done pounds and pounds in our kitchen oven and there is not even a scratch to be seen. Ask my wife!

This heat-treatment of flint/chert/rock is quite different to putting a whole nodule on an open fire, which causes rapid heating, trapped moisture and fractures present (i.e. weak points). At least if it is a preform before treating, you will (or are highly likely to) know whether it is good stone. It can then accommodate the expansion and contraction.

If you were to throw a soaked nodule on an open fire, then you probably would see rocks break more violently - but I do not suggest you do it.

If you heat rock in a pit (and I have not tried it), I would suggest ensuring the fire dried out the surrounding soil and sand well before starting. The moisture and rapid temp changes are the 'rock killers'.

I will try and fish out the paper. Do it at your own risk but in all the trials, we had no explosions.
 

Exbomz

Full Member
Oct 19, 2004
198
0
East Sussex
steve a said:
Flint explodes and shatters with spectacular energy when heated up, a large nodule can send shards over many meters at a very high velocity.I know this from personal experience having worked and conducted research in the quarrying and heavy building materials sector for many years. I would suggest in the interests of your own safety you perfect your knapping techniques rather than heat flint up in order to shatter it. A good start would be John or Will Lords web site where you can purchase some good books to explain the basics.

See my last post re: nodules. I would strongly agree with you about learning the technique. Ask yourself why do you want to heat treat the rock?

Is it because you want to increase the range of materials available to you or is because the local stone/whatever you can get hold of is poor and you want to improve its quality?​

Treated stone doesn't make you a better knapper - you have to learn the skills but it may be that it is the only way you can get stone on which to practice. It is a lot of effort to do but does not develop knapping skills.
 

kb31

Forager
Jun 24, 2006
152
2
by the lakes
hi all
i don't think i will try the flint heating-not yet anyway
it needs to be done when it's dry and sunny and it won't be for a bit
it's knapping i need to the hang of but can't seem to :(
thank you for your views- info and links on this :You_Rock_
i have been thinking-what if the flint was heated not to knapp better
but so it would break up when the spear or arrow hit bone and would
cause more damage-a stone age hollow point bullet?
 

nickg

Settler
May 4, 2005
890
5
69
Chatham
ninjaman said:
im new to this and would like to find some books on the subject.

I can reccommend an excellant book called flintknapping by John C Whittaker, University of texas Press, ISBN 0-292-79083-X. Very comprehensive and suerbly illustrated, it will give you just about everything that you can get from a book on the subject and a lot more. Highly recommended - and then spend a very worthwhile day with jon and val at their home (excellant value for a hundred quid) and you're well away

Cheers Nick
 

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