Fixing knife scales.

[durulz]

Going to have a go at making my first knife this weekend.
I was looking at the article on how to make a balde from a saw blade and all the tools mentioned in that I have, so I think it's a goer! If it comes out well, I am also going to have a go at making one from an old chisel or shear blade, as someone else has done.
OK, so my question is this: fixing the side scales - how is it done? In the article it mentioned 'brass pins'. Are these special brass pins? If so, where do I get them? If you could give me as much detail as possible about using them I'd really appreciate that. Assume I'm an absolute idiot with no idea whatsoever.
Cheers.
I'll post piccies as soon as it's done - probably take me a couple of weeks one-and-off work.
really looking forward to doing this.

 

[g4ghb]

This tutorial - http://www.bushcraftuk.com/index.php/DIY/Knife-Handle-Tutorial.html should give some hints

and a trip over to britishblades will give you more than enough hints and help

 

[durulz]

Yup - that was really useful.
But it fell into the same trap as other bits and bobs I've read. That is, all it says is to fit the pins. But no explanation beyond that. Are the pins hammered in? Are they cut to the right length? Do they need the ends hammered over to stop the scales coming loose? Do they have to be special pins? (I was thinking of using the shaft from cut-down nails)
All that kind of thing I'd really like to know.
As I said in the first post - assume I know nothing.

 

[joejoe]

you can but thin brass rod from b and q works well for pins

 

[durulz]

Lovely - great to know.
But I'd really like to know HOW they are fitted. Again - are they just pushed through, or hammered over at the ends? I presume they need to be a tight fit, but is there anything else that stops the scales coming off?
You get the idea.

 

[g4ghb]

yup - rod from b&q is fine be it brass or aluminium or whatever even nails as you suggest

I cut it slightly longer than the handle width as it is soft enough to remove when you shape the handle. I don't hammer it but I know many do I find I mess the handle more if I do and anyway the epoxy is strong enough to hold the scales on and all the pins do is stop lateral movement. I try to drill so it is a snug fit and a light tap to push it through is needed so the joint is clean with no gap.

hope this helps

 

[Mesquite]

I try to drill so it is a snug fit and a light tap to push it through is needed so the joint is clean with no gap.

I'm curious as well about this and at the same level as Durulz.

Do you apply some epoxy to the holes as well to ensure they don't work out after final fitting?

 

[durulz]

yup - rod from b&q is fine be it brass or aluminium or whatever even nails as you suggest

I cut it slightly longer than the handle width as it is soft enough to remove when you shape the handle. I don't hammer it but I know many do I find I mess the handle more if I do and anyway the epoxy is strong enough to hold the scales on and all the pins do is stop lateral movement. I try to drill so it is a snug fit and a light tap to push it through is needed so the joint is clean with no gap.

hope this helps

Lovely - that's what I wanted to know!
Phew - got there eventually. It was starting to feel like wading through custard.
I'm surprised that's enough to hold the scales on. I suppose the sanding action may corrupt the material of the pins a bit and that could help as well? Mmm...interesting.
I think I will do mine as quite a tight fit - purely out of paranoia.
Anyway - cheers for that. Greatly appreciated.

 

[g4ghb]

I'm curious as well about this and at the same level as Durulz.

Do you apply some epoxy to the holes as well to ensure they don't work out after final fitting?

Yup - but top be honest I'm not sure it is really necessary as a good coat on the blade handle kinda squishes out when you push the scales on anyway. I have a feeling that a tight pin ends up just pushing out most of the glue anyway but I work on the idea that a microscopic layer probably remains

Lovely - that's what I wanted to know!
Phew - got there eventually. It was starting to feel like wading through custard.
I'm surprised that's enough to hold the scales on. I suppose the sanding action may corrupt the material of the pins a bit and that could help as well? Mmm...interesting.
I think I will do mine as quite a tight fit - purely out of paranoia.
Anyway - cheers for that. Greatly appreciated.

Mine are quite tight - I don't like gaps and if you make the scales oversized you can sand off any breakout that occurs.

I also tend to rough the pins in the middle to give a bit of a key - a couple of groves cut with a triangular file

and Epoxy is really good stuff and if the handle / scales are well degreased you should hev no problems with scales coming off unless you really thrash the knife! - I've even made a few where I haven't used pins at all as I wanted a clean finish....

 

[durulz]

...I also tend to rough the pins in the middle to give a bit of a key - a couple of groves cut with a triangular file

and Epoxy is really good stuff and if the handle / scales are well degreased you should hev no problems with scales coming off unless you really thrash the knife! - I've even made a few where I haven't used pins at all as I wanted a clean finish....

That's a good idea. I'll definitely be doing that as well.
What about leaving the sides of the tang a bit rough as well - as a key for the glue to bite on to?

 

[Shankly]

I have one of the Enzo kits, so this thread is right up my street, I would just like to know where everyone gets their Epoxy from.? Any links, or highstreet shops that can be recomended ...?

 

[spiritofold]

Have you looked up "loveless bolts" These are often used in knife making and really
help secure the scales.

 

[Bernie Garland]

I have one of the Enzo kits, so this thread is right up my street, I would just like to know where everyone gets their Epoxy from.? Any links, or highstreet shops that can be recomended ...?

I use this,far better than any epoxy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Knife-Making-adhesive-Special-formula-2-oz_W0QQitemZ230037727212QQihZ013QQcategoryZ41181QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


Bernie

 

[spiritofold]

I just been looking at your knives Bernie

 

[Shankly]

Thanks Bernie,
great link, I think I will be investing in a drop of the good stuff...! By the way, how long do you normally have to wait for delivery.?

 

[Diligence]

If you make the holes too tight, when you push the pins thru the scales, it may tear out the scale. I would suggest that your pin holes (in the scale) be sized so that force is not required to insert the pins. Also, to assist with putting the pins thru the holes, add a small bevel to the pin ends. You can use simple brass tubing from the hobby shop in place of solid pins....will do the same thing and looks good too.

Epoxy glue (two part) is very strong, but you can add to that strength by ensuring that all surfaces are somewhat roughened before glueing. Also, prior to glueing, ensure you have used acetone or scrubbed all surfaces well to get rid of grease (including finger prints) This includes the pins (use some 80 grit sand paper). Some makers install what are called "epoxy pins". This is just a hole thru the tang, with corresponding holes in each of the scales, but the scale holes are only pockets (i.e. they do not completely penetrate the scale) Then when you slather with glue, some glue will span between each of the scale pockets, thru the tang.

If you want to attach the scales without using any glue (except for fit-up purposes), then peening the pins will be required. This is a bit more difficult, but if you remember that 25 taps with a hammer is better than 2 taps - you will be just fine.

I can elaborate more if you wish, feel free to PM me.

D

 

[Bernie Garland]

Thanks Bernie,
great link, I think I will be investing in a drop of the good stuff...! By the way, how long do you normally have to wait for delivery.?

There not as quick as most, 10 days is about the average.

Bernie

 

[Zammo]

I got my two part epoxy from Halfords (Araldite), this stuff:

http://www.peterleonardmarine.co.uk..._id=83&zenid=6d6877dc6e14c629751867c1891ce6a1

With regards pins I bought some mosaic pins from here:

http://www.thegoodstuffshop.dk/group.asp?group=3128

 

[g4ghb]

Interesting that you use CA Bernie - I use superglue to 'tack weld' leather and fit firesteel handles etc, never considered it for sticking scales...

 

[Bernie Garland]

Interesting that you use CA Bernie - I use superglue to 'tack weld' leather and fit firesteel handles etc, never considered it for sticking scales...

For the scales Graham,you have to use the one in the link,tried loads from here and they won't hold them,the stuff linked is the dogs dangleis,i dont use anything else.

Bernie