First aid

[outdoorstevo]

Hi,

I've just been reading Stuart's interesting article "Survival is all about a good cup of tea" http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=9951 ,
and one of the comments in there made me think about another idea I've been considering.

There's a bit in there that mentions how people are reluctant to carry "survival kits", in case others think they are odd, or rambo wannabees.

I was thinking that another reasonable idea is that if anyone asks about what your kit is, you can say "I'm a trained first aider, it's a small first aid kit along with other some useful kit for out on the hills/wherever".

Of course this does rely on you having done a recognised first aid course, and carrying a certain amount of basic first aid kit, which is probably a good idea anyway if spending any length of time out and about.

My thinking is that it's more likely to be acceptable to people that you carry some useful kit as part of being a responsible *trained* person, rather than them fearing that you're a nutter who sleeps with a 14" combat knife in his/her pants.

On that subject (and for other reasons), I've been thinking of doing a basic first aid course, and have been trying to decide between a 2 day "Activity first aid" course run by St. John's ambulance, and the (more expensive) level 2 REC course.

They are both about the same length, both seem to cover a lot of useful stuff for outdoor people, and both are recognised by various sporting authorities (RYA, MLTUK etc). I'm leaning toward the REC, as it looks like it may be slightly more geared to first aid in remote areas, but am not sure yet.

I was wondering if anyone has experience of these types of courses, and has any thoughts?

cheers,
Steve

 

[moduser]

Hi Steve,

A level 2 REC course is a great initiation to first aid.

If you can get your employer to send you on a first aid at work course (Lev 3 REC) that would good as it covers the lev 1 and lev 2 syllabus.

Good luck with your training.

Moduser

BTW I think your logic about combining certain items with your FAK is a good one

 

[alco141]

well being a yank i think it is my god given right to sleep with a 14 inch survival knife in my pants, actually i prefer a 16 inch knife. given that i have used your ploy of a survival kit as an augmented first aid kit when surrounded by sheeple. they seem to accept it well as they like to rely on someone else to take care of them.

so carry your first aid kit proudly but dont forget the machete in your underoos.

alex

 

[outdoorstevo]

well being a yank i think it is my god given right to sleep with a 14 inch survival knife in my pants, actually i prefer a 16 inch knife. given that i have used your ploy of a survival kit as an augmented first aid kit when surrounded by sheeple. they seem to accept it well as they like to rely on someone else to take care of them.

so carry your first aid kit proudly but dont forget the machete in your underoos.

alex

A man's pants are his own private kingdom.

The authorities here disagree though, so we have to be a bit careful what we carry where.

 

[kb31]

i did a first aider at work with st johns about 4 years ago it's run out now- a lot of useful stuff (work were paying so why not?) i asked about hypothermia and she said the cold/heat is a different course on it own. they seem to aim for that first 30-60 mins before help gets there not long term "survival" there's no one to come to you but in a age of phones thats kind of out the window now there's alot to take in a week but test at the end is easy Qs like would you use a new dressing or one that been opened before (there's one in your first aid bag on your mock up at the end and your mock casualty will covered in blood and shouting for help- don't panic but don't take ages think before you do anything hope this helps...karl

 

[Goose]

I thought there was a big difference between the first aid at work and the level 2 REC(Rescue and Emergency Care). It was a long time ago when I did the first aid at work course, and it may have changed, but I remember it was based around an ambulance being there within 20 minutes max and filling in forms. The REC course that I did recently was more aimed at outdoors and being prepared for extended waits without support, I was surprised at the depth of some of the training.
Most societies/authorities usually reccomend a minimum length of training time, ie 8 or 16 hours, and state that the course must include hypo/hyperthermia as a first aid qualification for outdoor activities.

 

[maverix]

From my experience, though it has been a while since i went the way of St. John. I found the REC course to be a little more practical and dynamic. My recollections of the St. Johns courses were of a more theoretical course that spent too long making sure i used the right knots. ( I may well have just had bad tutors, not an easy job keeping the attention of a dozen multi-ac instructors)

When it comes down to it, they both teach the same basic skill set, what matters is how you take the knowledge and apply it to your situation. Guess thats why i prefer the REC system.

 

[outdoorstevo]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the courses - I think I'll probably go for the level 2 REC if I can find somewhere good to do it.

It seems to be that the "industry" has somewhat standardised the courses between providers, in that level 1 courses are 8 hours/1 day, level 2 courses are 16 hours / 2 days etc. Just about any level 2 course is recognised by the various sporting authorities, probably for legal and insurance reasons.

I suspect that the level 3 REC has been tied into the safety at work thing simply because it's mainly a case of the subjects required for level 2, plus a few work specific things, plus the legal record keeping. I could well be wrong on this though. Sadly getting an employer to pay for this isn't an option, as I'm self employed.

I'm sure all first aid courses are intended to allow people to try to manage an immediate problem long enough for aid to arrive, rather than to provide ongoing medical care, but in the modern world, that's all that's likely to be required unless attempting a solo ascent of Nanga Parbat.

Looks like this whole thing is a good idea anyway, as yesterday I managed to cut the tip off my thumb using a pruning saw... Seems to be healing okay... touch wood

 

[useless]

I undertook (and passed) a first aid at work course via work last year. And later was called into use the skills at a road traffic accident where a man had a heart attack. I used the skills I was taught (mostly) and did my bit.

What was missing from my training, however, was how to take control of the scene. As I got there and said "Is anyone else a first aider?" I saw everyone else fall back and start to refer to me as the expert. I had to instruct people, quite robustly at certain points, and co-ordinate the call(s) to the emergency services. I'm OK at that sort of thing (I discovered), but I can't recall anyone even mentioning it on my 4 day course. So some basic "How to be in charge in a real emergency" training wouldn't have gone a miss! I would take a course that has this component in it if I were to travel back in time and start again.

Good luck with it!

 

[davef]

The last course I went on did have a lot on incident management and triage but that was ATLS (Advanced Trauma Life Support). These sorts of courses tend to have senario assessments with 'victims' to test understanding and decision making.... the worst bit tho is doing it whilst the rest of the group are watching and joining in being 'helpful' or 'hysterical'. Its complicated to put together but is really good to try it out. As Useless says once you get thrown it it can be a bit of a shock- our most recent was train vs logging truck in Canada - total derailment, 86 passengers, 2 cut fingers, 1 hysterical lady, 1 truck driver with only minor head lacs and blunt chest trauma.... all in 3 feet of snow and a 40min chopper flight from the nearest major hospital!

 

[pteron]

For learning how to deal with emergencies, there is a load of information on the FEMA web site including the EMS (Emergency management system) - you have to love freedom of information!

 

[Goose]

For learning how to deal with emergencies, there is a load of information on the FEMA web site including the EMS (Emergency management system) - you have to love freedom of information!

FEMA and freedom of information? Not often used in the same sentence!

 

[crazydave]

the old first aid at work book if you can get one is a usefull read as it covers sucking chest, stab wounds etc...

military manuals are a usefull read as they cover improvisation more and also discuss the dreaded tourniquet which is undertrained and often should be the first resort rather than the last. I was army trained and have since done a few civvy courses which frankly scare me but I guess like survival skills something is better than nothing. first aid at work now is a half day course where you are taught that if it wont take a plaster then ring for an ambulance. even the public first aid course covers much more than that.

scouts and guides have forst response which is cpr and plasters and not much more - quite scary really as they seem to rely on mobile phones now rather than training.

I know that liability is an issue but some good articles should be included somewhere. when they removed crown immunity from army medics we learnt to say 'I am not a doctor, do you still want me to proceed?' once they say yes then you can apply a tourniquet, chop their leg off and dip the stump in tar

if you reallywant to learn then get nancy carolines 'emergency care in the streets' its what the uk and us paramedic manuals are based on or find a download for the us army manuals although most survival books have a reasonable section in there. there's loads on the web.

I use a pocket first aid kit to suppliment my survival kit as its more likely to get opened it has puritabs, sewing kit and matches in there so could be used to light a fire. in addition I have a bigger kit in the bergan along with comfy kit.