Ezelap sharpening stone

[Spark]

I have been looking to buy a decent diamond or ceramic sharpening stone, for honing. The ezelap stone I come across isn't cheap but isn't one of the most expensive either. It is priced at £60 and available from http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/DOUBLE_SIDED_EZELAP_STONES.html
I was looking at the 8"x3" version in a fine(600grit)/medium(400grit) combo. But before I rush and buy it, I was wondering what peoples opinions on this particular stone are or if they could recommend something better.

Thanks in advance

 

[Bushcraft4life]

I could recommend something just as good but a lot cheaper.

Buy some wet and dry paper in various grits and a double sided Japanese waterstone, 1000x6000g.

Stone costs about £14, wet and dry for a lot costs about £5.

 

[weaver]

EZLap use a less expensive diamond than DMT. The EZLap don't last anywhere near as long.

Yeah they cost less, but you get less.

 

[Spark]

Thanks for the info guys, I think thats pretty much ruled out the ezelap stone. Again its the quality vs price trade-off.
I think I will get some wet and dry paper for now and see what I can achieve with that. Then I will buy a finer stone of some sort.

2 questions about the waterstones. Firstly do they belly out easily/quickly? Secondly Do waterstones need to be kept in water during storage?

Spark

 

[Bushcraft4life]

Yeah wet and dry is good, go for 300g to start upto 600g if the knife is blunt.

Then finish on a 1000x6000 grit stone to polish a deliver a super sharp edge.

No, they don't belly out quickly imo, my understanding of what you just said means if they distort in shape from being wet etc? no they don't.

The finer grits don't need to be stored in water full time, just soak them for about 30 minutes in tepid water the first time you use them, afterwords dry them with a clean cloth and store, then everytime you use them again, soak for a few minutes.

Also worth buying a Nagura stone to build up slurry on the wet stone, it really works like oil and puts a nice shine on the blade.

I am by no means an expert, just speaking from my own experience, so if i got something wrong (to people who know more than me) just highlight it.

 

[TheGreenMan]

...2 questions about the waterstones. Firstly do they belly out easily/quickly? Secondly Do waterstones need to be kept in water during storage?...

The coarser Japanese waterstones wear down (belly/dish/become concaved) quicker that the finer grit stones. Grits coarser than 1000 generally are used for reshaping a blade’s geometry, and they can dish very quickly, depending on what one is doing with them. For fairly aggressive sharpening you may not need anything coarser than 1000, or even 1200. I sometimes use a 4000 to remove small chips from a finely honed edge, then a 6000 to start polishing, then if I want to really freak myself out, a 10,000 followed by a small Norwegian Jasper hone.

By the way, I don’t use a Nagura stone for anything other that cleaning the streaks of metal off the fine stones of 4000 grit and above, then I wash the Nagura slurry off under running water . The Nagura may be of a coarser grit than the fine grit stone, which means all you’ll probably be doing with the Nagura slurry is scratching the polish that you’re attempting to put on the edge. The 1000 and 1200 grit stones will create their own slurry if you keep the stones well irrigated with water and use sufficient pressure. And unless you’re doing something like regrinding concave bevels totally flat, such as those that might be found on a new Mora, you probably won’t need a 1000 or 1200 stone. They may remove more metal from the blade than is necessary for general blade maintenance and honing.

One of the combination waterstones and a scrap of leather as a strop with polishing compound on it will probably be a good place to start if you want to go with the waterstones option for a first bench stone.

And you won’t need to store waterstones in water unless you are using wood working tools on a very regular basis and use the stones for honing the blades of wood planes and chisels etc on a daily basis.

British Red’s £5 Sharpening Kit as described in the sticky at the top of this forum is without doubt the most economical of all, and an extremely effective solution.

Best regards,
Paul.

PS: In case you’re not aware of this, American, Japanese and European grit numbers are not interchangeable values, and quite different from each other. This adds another layer of complexity when considering what to buy.

 

[weaver]

I use a 600 grit DMT machinist plate followed by a leather strop coated in jewelers rouge for just about everything. If I need to be more aggressive I use a belt sander. My planes and chisels will take .005 inch cuts off hardwood with ease. This is the most efficient, practical and workable solution for me, a two step process that is quick and reliable. I don't need to split hairs or shave peaches on a regular basis and I don't have time to waste on superfluous sharpening.

 

[TheGreenMan]

...I don't need to split hairs or shave peaches on a regular basis and I don't have time to waste on superfluous sharpening.

I like that. I don't need to do that either, but it's fun to try and do those things sometimes

To be honest, most of the time I use the ceramic side of a DC4 and a leather strop for everything from a pocket knife to an axe. I don't use carpenter's tools at all, other than a saw and Roselli puukko.

The diamond side of the DC4 is quoted as being 25 microns which is the same as your DMT whetstone.

I've been considering getting a coarser DMT bench stone for heavy reshaping of blades to avoid the dishing problem with the coarser waterstones.

Kind regards,
Paul.

 

[Spark]

Some food for thought there, and useful information regarding the usage of the waterstones. The thing is there are so many stones to choose from and and they all have their pros and cons. But I have definitely decided on getting some wet and dry. Then its just a matter of deciding on what honing stone to get unless. Many people have recommended the w+d option but say they still use stone for honing. Is this because stones are finer than the highest grit wet and dry?

What size is the DC4? As I will be sharpening chisels and plane blades as well as knives so I would need it relatively wide.

Thanks for the answers on the waterstones, maybe it was just some of my misconceptions. Would this waterstone kit be a good option or is it overpriced for what you get?

 

[TheGreenMan]

If you’re just starting out then it can be very confusing in respect to all the ways available to sharpen and hone bladed tools, and if you ask for an opinion you can often get a 100 differing opinions. Sharpening tools can be a somewhat contentious issue.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I’m not a carpenter of any sort, so I’m probably the wrong person to ask, but as I understand it abrasive papers will handle just about any job of sharpening that a carpenter needs to do. Here a post from the Usenet Newsgroup ‘rec.woodworking’ about tool sharpening and honing with abrasive papers. I very much like Steve’s prose style:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/msg/798769fbc0a3e6a3?hl=en󃀱fbc0a3e6a3&

This video should give you an idea of how to proceed with the abrasive papers for plane blades and flat chisels:
http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/165/videos/sandpaper-sharpening/

A number of differing techniques here:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00003.asp

Here’s some info about grits for aluminium oxide and silicon carbide sheets:
http://www.fepa-abrasives.org/Deskt...dingindex=5&headingid=80&tabindex=0&tabid=272

The Fallkniven DC4 will be too small for most carpentry tools as it’s a pocket stone.

The Ice Bear kit is good value.

As all stones with the exception of diamond whetstones will dish sooner or later, then if I were starting out from scratch (forgive the pun) then I’d go with Weaver’s idea of DMT diamond whetstones for the sharpening and honing stages, expensive in initial outlay, but they’ll last a lifetime, they start out flat and stay flat. Then find some method that you like for fine polishing of the honed edge.

There are three basic stages to follow when sharpening - grinding, honing, polishing. Once you have got the edge geometry of a blade correctly set-up with the grinding, you then set about honing it, then you polish. Most of the time you’ll only do honing and polishing.

I’ve been sharpening knives for about two years, and I’m just beginning to understand it, and I’m always learning new things, and I still learn from other people. It takes a while to fully understand what’s happening at the cutting edge.

An invaluable aid to this learning process is a 10x hand lens (you can’t really see what’s happening with the naked eye), and an open mind and a willingness to practice and practice, and then practice some more.

By the way, in respect to carpentry tools, I can highly recommend The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee, it’s a very informative read.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Paul.

 

[weaver]

Wow! Paul hit every nail square on the head.

Great post! Great advice!

And I teach the sandpaper method to new wood workers as well. A full size DMT plate is around $60 here but I understand they are considerably more in GB. Ten sheets each of 220, 400, 600, 800 and 1200 grit sandpaper will cost around $20 or less and will last a very long time.

A honing guide for your plane blades and chisels will make a huge difference when you are learning.

 

[TheGreenMan]

Wow! Paul hit every nail square on the head...

Thank you kind, sir, and most unlike me

Very kind regards,
Paul.

 

[Spark]

Wow! Paul hit every nail square on the head.
Great post! Great advice!

I second that.

A honing guide for your plane blades and chisels will make a huge difference when you are learning.

I've already got a honing guide but one of the chippies i was working with said thats one way to cause your stone to dish. I asked him what stone he uses to sharpen his tools. His reply was oilstones, hes had the same ones for over 15 years and he says they are still as flat as when he bought them. His 'secret' to keeping them flat was to use the whole of the stone when sharpening and not to use a honing guide.

I will have a good look through those links later on. I had a quick flick through them and they look very informative.

Thanks everyone

 

[weaver]

As I have said many times it is usually not the tool at fault, but rather how it is used.

In order to use the full length of a stone with a roller guide you have to extend the platform by attaching a plank the same thickness as the stone to your table top or to a piece of plywood long enough to hold both the plank and the stone. The plank should be the length of the stone plus the length of the guide. Now the guide rides on the plank and the blade rides on the full length of the stone, no more dishing.

Very simple and quite obvious if you stop to think about it instead of automatically dismissing the idea.



Every time somebody says that won't work don't say 'OK'.

Say why not, then think how can it work?

 

[Spark]

Now thats a good idea weaver. Quite simple in effect but not necessarily something I would of thought of, allows me to use the honing guide as well until I get better. I think I'll knock something up for that.

 

[weaver]

I must be honest and say i didn't think of it alone. When I was 6 years old I played in the sign shop behind my apartment. The old guy there had a small workbench in the corner where he did a bit of carving. Inset in the edge of his bench was a sharpening stone about 8 inches long, two and a half inches wide and an inch deep. He had carved out a recess for the stone to rest in. As it wore down he would place sheets of paper in the bottom of the recess to bring the stone up to just above level with the bench top.

Many, many years later when faced with the same question you asked i remembered his set up, not having a bench and in fear of my life for wanting to carve my mother's dining room table I came up with the aforementioned plan.