Epi Pens
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
how so? I'm just wondering, since if a person did need one, they would have it on their person.
Only if they knew they needed one... unless they've had a reaction before, they wouldn't know..
Very important not to stray in to prescribing something and administering a drug to someone that has not been prescribed by a Doc - unless you are suitably qualified to do so.
There is the obvious moral dilemma if you had one with you and someone experienced their first anaphalaxis.
There is the obvious moral dilemma if you had one with you and someone experienced their first anaphalaxis.
It is important to get training in order to use EpiPens. There are courses out there that can certify practitioners to use the EpiPen. In the UK the Remote Emergency Care crowd have this in their curriculum at the REC 4 level.
Nice bit of kit with the safety needle.
Nice bit of kit with the safety needle.
I would hope that Bikething is qualified to recognise the condition - as he has been on one of our expedition med courses. If not - i haven't done my job properly ;-)
ECP courses cover this kind of thing at Level 2/3 - as it is pretty important.
ECP courses cover this kind of thing at Level 2/3 - as it is pretty important.
To the best of my knowledge, Bikething will not be carrying an epi-pen in the UK on a routine basis. The training that he received means that he should be more than capable of identifying the problem and administering to someone with a known condition / their own stash.
I carry one in the UK on a regular basis, but that comes down to training and what i do for a living. Overseas, I don't carry autoinjectors - I use the old fashioned route.
I carry one in the UK on a regular basis, but that comes down to training and what i do for a living. Overseas, I don't carry autoinjectors - I use the old fashioned route.
A
Adi.
Guest
We do not teach you can carry an Edipen or any drug in the UK environment.
To carry an Epipen or any POM in the UK without a script is illegal. Whether you acquired it from a friend, abroad or stole it.
If you choose to carry a POM without a script you leave yourself open to prosecution.
On expedition abroad if you have the relevant training then you can carry and prescribe a POM. I would advise you get medical advise from the UK first and it is strongly advised that any POM's you do carry are sourced on a UK script and not bought over the counter in country. The reason being if something does go wrong there will be an investigation and possible legal tribunal.
To carry an Epipen or any POM in the UK without a script is illegal. Whether you acquired it from a friend, abroad or stole it.
If you choose to carry a POM without a script you leave yourself open to prosecution.
On expedition abroad if you have the relevant training then you can carry and prescribe a POM. I would advise you get medical advise from the UK first and it is strongly advised that any POM's you do carry are sourced on a UK script and not bought over the counter in country. The reason being if something does go wrong there will be an investigation and possible legal tribunal.
All arguments over training, rights to carry and the rest aside there is one simple reason for not carrying an Epi Pen just in case;
cost
A pen has a usable life of around 6 months and they cost £30 plus.
Is it worth the hassle of sourcing pens and paying £60 to £100 a year for something you may never use? How many of us have come across severe anaphylaxis in a previously undiagnosed casualty, other than medical professionals and responders who go looking for this kind of thing
Even then, it's not exactly a day to day occurance.
Better save the cash and stock your kit with more useful bits that don't have a shelf life and high cost.
cost
A pen has a usable life of around 6 months and they cost £30 plus.
Is it worth the hassle of sourcing pens and paying £60 to £100 a year for something you may never use? How many of us have come across severe anaphylaxis in a previously undiagnosed casualty, other than medical professionals and responders who go looking for this kind of thing
Even then, it's not exactly a day to day occurance.Better save the cash and stock your kit with more useful bits that don't have a shelf life and high cost.
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A
Adi.
Guest
If you are in a position to lead an expedition or to do medical cover for one then I would hope you would know the law. If you don't you have no right being in a position of responsibility.
There is no country that would stop a trained expedition medic from treating a member of the expedition in country. Start treating the local population you might open yourself up to problems. It is however wise to check what drugs you wish to take with you are legal in that country as not all drugs available in the UK are legal in other countries. That also goes for drugs obtained in other countries that you may decide to bring back to the UK. Some drugs available in the states are illegal here, including some over the counter products.
An important thing to remember is 'ignorance of the law is not a valid defence'.
There is no country that would stop a trained expedition medic from treating a member of the expedition in country. Start treating the local population you might open yourself up to problems. It is however wise to check what drugs you wish to take with you are legal in that country as not all drugs available in the UK are legal in other countries. That also goes for drugs obtained in other countries that you may decide to bring back to the UK. Some drugs available in the states are illegal here, including some over the counter products.
An important thing to remember is 'ignorance of the law is not a valid defence'.
As someone who carries an epi pen (cleg bites) and has a permanent prescription so that when one dates out I have a fresh one to hand, I can categorically state that the only ones I've ever seen are 'Auto-Injector' and leave no exposed sharp end, and that the use by date has always been at least a year.
My present prescription is dated 10/03/11 and the exp date on the pen itself is 04-2012
The thought of managing to stay cool headed enough to stab myself with this one is bad enough, the thought that I would have to manage the co-ordination to effectively fill a syringe too, is not funny, especially since the likely symptoms include, "shortness of breath, nausea, vomiting, stomach cramps and insome cases, loss of consciousness".
If it's of any help, my Doctors tell me that should I present at hospital with anaphylaxis then the epi pen is the last thing they would use. First response is anti histamine, not adrenaline. The very same anti histamines that are available in packs of seven in every poundstore in the land.
Hoping no one (me included) ever needs the pen, but it's rather reassuring (to me *and* to my family and friends) that it's available.
cheers,
Toddy
My present prescription is dated 10/03/11 and the exp date on the pen itself is 04-2012
The thought of managing to stay cool headed enough to stab myself with this one is bad enough, the thought that I would have to manage the co-ordination to effectively fill a syringe too, is not funny, especially since the likely symptoms include, "shortness of breath, nausea, vomiting, stomach cramps and insome cases, loss of consciousness".
If it's of any help, my Doctors tell me that should I present at hospital with anaphylaxis then the epi pen is the last thing they would use. First response is anti histamine, not adrenaline. The very same anti histamines that are available in packs of seven in every poundstore in the land.
Hoping no one (me included) ever needs the pen, but it's rather reassuring (to me *and* to my family and friends) that it's available.
cheers,
Toddy
Yes. Ive had training to recognise an anaphylactic reaction, and to use an EpiPen.
Theres a reason why its called an expedition medical course. Some of us dont restrict our travels to a 5-room tent with built in Jacuzzi on a Caravan club approved site :
At £40 a pop with a 6 month shelf life I have no intention of carrying one myself in the UK (unless a doctor prescribes that I need one).
Still it's useful knowing how to use one on a casualty who is unable to use their own
......the pharmacist made a point of demonstrating to my husband with an out of date one, the point isn't accessible once the thumb pressure is released. It retracts.
cheers,
M
cheers,
M
Guess there's different types out there - is "auto-injector" the brand name / manufacturer ? I thought it was just a generic description of the pen thingy.. a bit like "hoover"
A
Adi.
Guest
Your doctor is correct Toddy (as one would expect). The adrenaline is used by casualties, first responders and sometime, A&E departments as the initial treatment to give time to administer anti histamine and give it time to start working. In an overseas expedition as a medic if you are going to carry adrenalin it is important to carry anti histamine too. Normally in the form of chlorpheniramine 4mg every 8 hours orally as stated in the included literature. In very bad cases it might be necessary to inject the first dose of chlorpheniramine from instructions a doctor has given you prior to your trip or much better over a sat phone whilst you are dealing with the casualty.
