Edge problem

[richardhomer]

Hi guys.
I have a bit of a problem. I've lost the edge on my mora. It's the. Carbon steel one.
I'm using a DC3 but it's one that's well used and the diamond side is now very smooth. So it does not take very much off now. In fact I would say none at all.

What's the best way of getting the edge back on the knife. I have a 180 grit stone that I've had a go with but not had much luck.

I will point out I've never been the best at sharpening knives. I've always found it hard to get a knife razor sharp and I have only ever been able to do that once. I have been told that my axe is always sharper than my knife and I have to say that this is mostly the case.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Stevie777]

I'm not an expert at sharpening. I can get my Mark hill knives razor sharp but they are 01, My carbon knives are a problem for me. I would be interested also in learning how to get a Razor edge on Carbon steel.

 

[richardhomer]

I'm not an expert at sharpening. I can get my Mark hill knives razor sharp but they are 01, My carbon knives are a problem for me. I would be interested also in learning how to get a Razor edge on Carbon steel.

I'm sure I read somewhere that carbon steel is very hard to get a razor edge because of it being soft but it should be easy to get an edge. I've always kept a good edge on the mora but I very stupidly have gone and lost it. I hope it's still ok to sort it. I have a couple of old Sheffield pen knives. I don't know what steel that are but they are. It stainless steel. Anyway I picked them up at a car boot. Both were blunt. But I got a very good sharp edge on both. And while they are not razor sharp they are not that far off.
I have heard that it's hard to get a good edge on stainless but once you have one they keep sharper for longer . Not sure if this is true or not.

 

[Chris the Cat]

I'm not an expert at sharpening. I can get my Mark hill knives razor sharp but they are 01, My carbon knives are a problem for me. I would be interested also in learning how to get a Razor edge on Carbon steel.

O1 is Carbon steel Stevie.
It is not difficult, quickest would be a Youtube video, I don't have time at the moment, but some one will come along.
Angle is already set for you via the bevel, bung it into Google, lots of vids out there.
If I had more time mate, I would go through it for you.

Best.

Chris.

 

[mark.177]

something i have a hard time with is explaining things through text but you should be able to get a razor edge on a carbon steel blade relatively easily with the right equipment and technique.
in the field i use a dc4 and a small leather strop with a wax polishing compound stick and can keep an edge topped up and razor sharp with minimum effort. getting an edge back from dull though takes a little more work and something a little coarser. daimond sharpeners do tend to loose the daimond coatings over time.
at home i have various water stones from 240 grit to 6000 for putting an edge on new blades from scratch. the angle that you sharpen is dependent on the type of knife, steel and what your using it for but generally 20 degrees is a good start, does the mora have a scandi grind? if it does you really need a larger flat stone. sorry not much help but could explain better face to face with the knife and sharpening stuff at hand

 

[Stevie777]

O1 is Carbon steel Stevie.
It is not difficult, quickest would be a Youtube video, I don't have time at the moment, but some one will come along.
Angle is already set for you via the bevel, bung it into Google, lots of vids out there.
If I had more time mate, I would go through it for you.

Best.

Chris.

Great, now i have no clue as to what steel my "Carbon" knives are..might be a mix of Carbon and something else.

 

[BushBob]

Stevie,

I am no expert at sharpening, but the trick is maintaining a consistent angle. That is quite hard to do on a flat stone.

I get good results with the V sharpening systems. The Lansky four rod box is good, as is the spiderco sharp maker. The four rod box is cheaper. So long as you keep the blade vertical you'll get a good edge.

Carbon steel is generally easier to sharpen than stainless, although the Mora stainless knives are some of the easiest stainless ones to sharpen.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Chris the Cat]

Great, now i have no clue as to what steel my "Carbon" knives are..might be a mix of Carbon and something else.

Yep, Carbon, Manganese, Silicon plus others ( possibly , depending on the steel
Carbon is the primary hardening agent.
Could be o1 tool steel with a hight carbon content, EN45, 1095 .... Lots out there, typically not that hard to sharpen ( as in not TOO 'hard', don't need diamonds, altho you CAN use them! )

C.

 

[Robson Valley]

As a wood carver, I have all sorts of edges, straight, crooked and sweeps. All freehand, all the time.
1. Use a protractor to draw the angle on a card that you can stand up then try to match.
For a total included bevel angle of 20 degrees, you need criss-cross lines at 10 degrees (for each side)
2. Paint the bevel with black felt marker so that you can see what's happening.
3. Stand up. With your forearms tight against your sides, elevate the blade to match the card.
4. Pull stroke. Stop and lift straight up. Back to start, straignt down, check angle, pull stroke.
If you sweep the blade up off the grit, you round off the bevel to something useless.
5. Analysis: hold the edge up to a very bright light. Any crumpled bits will reflect light like a spark.
Dull edges will reflect a line of light. When that all disappears, you're done.
6. Application: being able to cut soft hair/whisker protein is no fair judgement of the edge.
Try it in whatever it is that you plan to cut. Wood? Food?

 

[richardhomer]

As a wood carver, I have all sorts of edges, straight, crooked and sweeps. All freehand, all the time.
1. Use a protractor to draw the angle on a card that you can stand up then try to match.
For a total included bevel angle of 20 degrees, you need criss-cross lines at 10 degrees (for each side)
2. Paint the bevel with black felt marker so that you can see what's happening.
3. Stand up. With your forearms tight against your sides, elevate the blade to match the card.
4. Pull stroke. Stop and lift straight up. Back to start, straignt down, check angle, pull stroke.
If you sweep the blade up off the grit, you round off the bevel to something useless.
5. Analysis: hold the edge up to a very bright light. Any crumpled bits will reflect light like a spark.
Dull edges will reflect a line of light. When that all disappears, you're done.
6. Application: being able to cut soft hair/whisker protein is no fair judgement of the edge.
Try it in whatever it is that you plan to cut. Wood? Food?

So is a pull stroke better than a push stroke on a stone ?
I've been pushing

 

[C_Claycomb]

For where you are, with the amount of metal you probably need to move, just scrub the blade in both directions. If direction makes a difference, and I am not convinced that it does in all cases, it only matters for the last finishing stage of sharpening. Not the bulk metal removal needed to re-set the bevel to something you can feel and feel comfortable/consistent for finishing.

My experience has been that one of the main reasons that people have trouble getting things sharp is that they are being too tentative, using too fine a stone with too much metal to remove. The result is that it takes forever, and long before they are close to getting a result they give it up as a bad job. The lack of discernible progress hinders improvement because you can't tell whether what you feel your hands and the blade doing "now" is good or not.

I find that not lifting, scrubbing in both directions, helps you keep the blade bevel flat and to grind a consistent angle with your coarse stone.

I often use up to 120 grit premium sand paper to re-set bevels. It cuts, is cheap and is easy to keep FLAT.

There may be some information to help you on general knife info and sharpening here a sticky at the start of the sub forum:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8793&p=118915#post118915

Marker pens are great aids for blacking the edge. If you start with a polished, but blunt edge, the very last blunt bit won't hold the black if you are grinding on a coarse grit, but in that case it is easy to see the difference between the shiny strip of blunt metal right at the edge, compared to the non-shiny just-ground area next to it. Keep grinding till there is no shiny strip left and you can feel a burr at the edge.

Whether it is "carbon" or "stainless" is irrelevant to how easy it is to sharpen. There are steels with high levels of chrome (the thing that defines whether its called stainless) that sharpen easy but don't hold well, some that do hold better, some that are more difficult to sharpen and hold really well, then there are steels with lower or non-existent chrome levels that stain to some degree, called "carbon steel" that are easy to sharpen but don't hold an edge, some that sharpen easy that do, and some that are hard to sharpen and may, or may not hold an edge well. And there are different types of edge which different steels may hold better, or worse. Alloy content and heat treatment make all the difference, but thinking that it can all be distilled to "stainless vs carbon" is out-dated ignorance.

...as you can tell, this is a pet peeve of mine

Best of luck!!

 

[richardhomer]

Cheers for that Chris

 

[richardhomer]

Thanks guys for the input.
I've sorted it now. My problem was keeping the angel while sharpening. I found it better to pull the blade over the stone than pushing. By pulling I could keep a better angel and keep my hand in fixed in place to keep the angel. I also think I may have been pressing down a bit to much.

Anyway I now have an edge back k on the mora. And I while it's not razor sharp it is sharp and can cut rope clean and whittle wood. So that's sharp enough for what I need.

Thanks again everyone