Counter Assault Bear Deterrent

[Abbe Osram]

Hi Guys,
Does anyone of you know where I could buy "Counter Assault Bear Deterrent"
in Europe, as the American and Canadian companies dont send the stuff anymore via Air mail. I guess its a result of the September 11 thing. That product would be my first choice but another proven Bear deterrent could work too.

Thanks for any pointers or help
cheers
Abbe

 

[arctic hobo]

I'm never sure about this bear pepper spray thing - I mean I guess it's better to use it than to shoot the bear (which is the precaution I admit I've taken in the past, although I have never used it), but surely you may just aggravate a bear that is only inquisitive? Maybe it's just me.

PS Sorry Abbe, I've looked round a few places I thought might have it but no luck

 

[Abbe Osram]

I'm never sure about this bear pepper spray thing - I mean I guess it's better to use it than to shoot the bear (which is the precaution I admit I've taken in the past, although I have never used it), but surely you may just aggravate a bear that is only inquisitive? Maybe it's just me.

PS Sorry Abbe, I've looked round a few places I thought might have it but no luck

The bear pepper spray is a very good thing, because it gives you the possibility to react against the bear and teach him without killing him. 98 percent off all bears, even the very aggressive bears, are beaten back by the spray without harming them but teaching them a lesson not to come to near to humans. To shoot a bear is very counter productive, first the bear cant learn because he is dead after you shot him and secondly having a rifle creates a false security for the woodsman. (Lots are bad shots under combat stress situations and die only wounding the bear) Most of the bear attacks are only to put scare into you and stop just some meters before contact with you, then they turn and run. This is a too short of a distance to wait out with the gun, you will have to shoot the bear before you can determine if its a fake attack or not, so you will have time to shoot a second time and reload.

In that way the bear has no chances of communicating to you that he only wants to scare you off his personal space but doesn’t want to harm you. With the spray you are better prepared for close combat than with a rifle. There is no report of a human killed by a bear using bear spray but a lot death have been reported where hunters where only wounding bears and getting killed. A problem for me hunting will be sneaking around in the forest, against the wind using a dog. If the dog hits on a bear and get scarred he will run back to me, lets say I am not out for hunting bears I will be ill prepared for close combat with a rifle or even with a shot gun, being surprised in dense bush not expecting a bears rushing me with a speed of a horse. I consider spray for back woods camping, hunting or berry picking the best self-defence choice and the best teaching tool for the bears too. A bear that scares you out of your camp or gets your backpack, is a dead bear, if we run off and don’t teach the bear he will be conditioned to scare people of their stuff and is conditioned to hassle humans. We got a very dangerous bear. Here in Sweden we have a bunch of nature romantics telling you that a bear is peaceful. In one way they are right and at the same moment they are wrong! All is depending what history the bear has, they are like individuals, all is depending how the bear is conditioned. It would be as stupid to say humans are not dangerous because we believe in humanism. I would say some people are friendly and some are not, some people turn ugly when being afraid or pressed and some even keep peaceful then, the same is with a bear. Most of the time bears are doing nothing but if you meet the wrong one you are in trouble, like Timothy Treadwell, if he would have had pepper spray he would still be alive and is girl friend too writing more books about living with grizzly’s.

Cheers
Abbe

 

[arctic hobo]

Thanks Abbe, good explanation

 

[Toddy]

Abbe, is the bear pepper spray any different from the Mace that is sold for self defence for women to carry in their handbags ? If it's not that different then it ought to be available in the kind of shops that sell outdoors gear and travel equipment, and presumably Sweden has those too.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Squidders]

I agree with Abbe... very well put mate.

Toddy, I don't think pepper spray is the same as mace... I think mace has some nasties in it that can restrict breating and cause actual swelling of the eyes and face... pepper spray is just that, pepper... I've actually had some on a tacco and while ok, it's not the best eating stuff.

The pepper will cause strong irritation to the eyes and a fair bit of discomfort but will not hinder breathing or cause swelling. It will cause much running away and thinking about what happened though

 

[OldJimbo]

Unfortunately, postal regulations now require a person to almost sign away their life if they try to ship anything like bear spray. Otherwise I could mail you some.
It can be tricky to use and some training is a good idea - if you manage to get some.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Abbe, is the bear pepper spray any different from the Mace that is sold for self defence for women to carry in their handbags ? If it's not that different then it ought to be available in the kind of shops that sell outdoors gear and travel equipment, and presumably Sweden has those too.

Cheers,
Toddy

here Toddy that is the thing:

http://store.safetycentral.com/coasbedepesp.html

its well tested against bears, I believe it has a much higher dose of Capsaicinoids in it than humans can stand. And you need a lot of stuff, dont try it with spray for human self defence. It must be bear tested.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Abbe Osram]

Unfortunately, postal regulations now require a person to almost sign away their life if they try to ship anything like bear spray. Otherwise I could mail you some.
It can be tricky to use and some training is a good idea - if you manage to get some.

Old Jimbo
I would love to get in contact with you about mailing me the spray, but first we have to make sure you are not getting into trouble and we get the spray though the custom in canada and on my end. I have to figure out my end on the pipeline.
Is it possible for you to mail it at all without getting into trouble?
If it is possible for you lets continue with PMs.

thanks mate
for your
help
Abbe

 

[HuBBa]

Abbe, according to swedish law you need a license to use any pepperspray or mace designed for personal use (ie. delivered through aerosol over a distance). This includes bear-sprays and such.

Just thought i'd raise a little warning as it will require some heavy licenses and documents to be allowed to import it into Sweden

 

[pumbaa]

Strange , i am reading a book called "Hunted" where an ex marine sets about climbing mount Hess in Alaska . Unfortunately he gets startled by a young bear cub and reacts instinctively with an ice axe (not the wisest of moves , but the book seemed full of them to me) . The mother , a Grizzly , hunts him up and down the mountain , and nearly gets him on more than one occasion .
I don't fully understand what it must be like to come face to face with a bear , as there are none in the UK and i have never seen one wild , but i am guessing that weather a rifle , spray or iceaxe , Brown coulored trousers might be in order !!
Greatest respect to anyone who goes through "bear country" .
Pumbaa

 

[Abbe Osram]

Abbe, according to swedish law you need a license to use any pepperspray or mace designed for personal use (ie. delivered through aerosol over a distance). This includes bear-sprays and such.

Just thought i'd raise a little warning as it will require some heavy licenses and documents to be allowed to import it into Sweden

yeah, that shows how stupid some of the laws are here. This stupid law split the country folks with the town nature romantics. The people up here want to shoot all the bears and the town people say: Learn to live with them but dont tell how.

Read expressen and the nut head from the Länsstyrelsen:

http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=295640

I believe that the spray could be the answer, dont kill the bears but give people some peacefull selfdefence weapon in their hand to get the bears back into the woods and out of camp.


I think I will have the spray send to my mother to Germany and I pick it up there.


cheers
Abbe

 

[HuBBa]

I agree Abbe. And whats further a problem is that you cannot use them for personal protection in the event of assault (female or male).

But it's a classical example of forbidding something that could be for the good for many because a few can misuse it.

 

[Doc]

In the UK, mace and pepper sprays are Section 5 firearms and completely prohibited. Machine guns and Anti -tank weapons are in the same category.

http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/f_prohb1.htm


Needless to say, if I was in bear country I would want a pepper spray tucked into the waistband of my brown trousers.

 

[Abbe Osram]

In the UK, mace and pepper sprays are Section 5 firearms and completely prohibited. Machine guns and Anti -tank weapons are in the same category.

http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/f_prohb1.htm


Needless to say, if I was in bear country I would want a pepper spray tucked into the waistband of my brown trousers.

In england it would make some sense to me as people could use it in the street fighging while settling which one is the best football team. But in sweden it is the same, its forbidden here and we have bears keeping the people in house, while some stupid nature romantics in Stockholm have nothing else to say than: "Learn to live with it and look out of the window". If you shoot one of them you go to jail.
I wrote a letter to the news about Spray to steer up a discussion, lets see if something happen here. People only know about two things, shooting or let the bear do what they want. I believe both is wrong. Bears should learn not to bother people but in a way that they dont need to be killed. At the same time we give the people suffering under bears a weapon for selfdefence.

Hope the idiotic goverment people wake up soon.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Wayne]

Abbe.

I spent time in alaska where they have some very large Brown bears. Before hand i read 'Bear attacks and their avoidance' top book. I am not comfortable with killing bears. The spray might work. Generally bears that attack have become habituated to humans through human bad practice. like dumb people feeding them or leaving rubbish and food scraps all over the place. i couldn't beleive some of the bad practice i saw in the US.

Have you had any encounters with bears? I didnt see any sign of bears when i was up your way. The closest i came in Alaska was about 1km to a mother and baby sadly no photos as my poor excuse of a camera over exposed all the photos. Hopefully i can persuade val to let me wander around there again some day soon.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Abbe.

I spent time in alaska where they have some very large Brown bears. Before hand i read 'Bear attacks and their avoidance' top book. I am not comfortable with killing bears. The spray might work. Generally bears that attack have become habituated to humans through human bad practice. like dumb people feeding them or leaving rubbish and food scraps all over the place. i couldn't beleive some of the bad practice i saw in the US.

Have you had any encounters with bears? I didnt see any sign of bears when i was up your way. The closest i came in Alaska was about 1km to a mother and baby sadly no photos as my poor excuse of a camera over exposed all the photos. Hopefully i can persuade val to let me wander around there again some day soon.

Hi mate,
we had a lot of bear incidents here lately but I am happy I was not involved and havent met a bear yet. We had last year a bear marching behind my house and sleeping it off in a neighbour garden. I believe he was smelling his smoked fish.
One hunter got killed near to Jokkmock where I live, and we had about 3 maulings when a bear got hold of a person. Next season when I go bird hunting I want to be prepared and not needing to do something foolish like shooting in fear with the wrong weapon only wounding a bear. I consider a spray the best way of selfprotection for bear and men. But as you say, it is a rare thing that something could happen, much more likely that it happens to hunters while sneaking around with a dog in the forest. Just found this on the news and it shows that not only hunters are in danger to run on a bear.

Here some news from Alberta about a Grizzly attack:
http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=a49cd7e8-0c99-44f5-a496-21b5ba566eab


I know the book, its a very good book. He makes it very clear about the conditioning of bears and even if you do all the things right you dont know the history of that bear, if other people where sloppy with it you might face a habitated bear. I would like to have an option and not allow a bear to have controll over my life leaving me hoping and praying curled up on the ground playing dead.

cheers
Abbe

 

[HuBBa]

I had a chat with a friend of mine who has worked as a warden up in Alaska from time to time and he said that the sprays are "semi-working". If the bear is enraged enough it might not deter him one bit.

Still, it would be preferable to shooting the bear.

Now how about trying to solve this? A pepper spray that is considered illegal in Sweden is one that is driven by aerosol and thus capable of delivering pretty accurate shots over a distance (They are also classed as handguns actually). But how about using a solution delivered through say a normal pumpdriven bottle? (Or a supersoaker . There are also some protective systems that are legal in Sweden, so called "Skunkspray" that might work. They give off a very foul odour which makes humans nauseous but is harmless to us (A pepperspray is not harmless and potentially lethal if you have respiratory issues, hence why they are forbidden.) .

I would assume the bear would be even more receptive to strong smells? Plus with the added benefit of giving nausea(through smell) instead of pain (pepper).

Or maybe a solution with a lot of chopped chili's could be used =) Both as a seasoning and as a deterrant

Thoughts?

 

[Abbe Osram]

I had a chat with a friend of mine who has worked as a warden up in Alaska from time to time and he said that the sprays are "semi-working". If the bear is enraged enough it might not deter him one bit.

Still, it would be preferable to shooting the bear.

Now how about trying to solve this? A pepper spray that is considered illegal in Sweden is one that is driven by aerosol and thus capable of delivering pretty accurate shots over a distance (They are also classed as handguns actually). But how about using a solution delivered through say a normal pumpdriven bottle? (Or a supersoaker . There are also some protective systems that are legal in Sweden, so called "Skunkspray" that might work. They give off a very foul odour which makes humans nauseous but is harmless to us (A pepperspray is not harmless and potentially lethal if you have respiratory issues, hence why they are forbidden.) .

I would assume the bear would be even more receptive to strong smells? Plus with the added benefit of giving nausea(through smell) instead of pain (pepper).

Or maybe a solution with a lot of chopped chili's could be used =) Both as a seasoning and as a deterrant

Thoughts?

I would not like to play around with it, but Pepper Spray is well proven:

Dave Moody of WY Fish and Game Department said that in dozens of cases in the last 15 years, only once has a grizzly bear continued through pepper spray to attack the sprayer [through 1997], while noting that in the majority of cases in which a bear is shot, the shooter is still reached by the bear".

There is a new thing tested using rubber bullets, they are very successful too but as you can imagen not allowed here in sweden either.

In one way or another I get the stuff in the country, maybe I start selling it here.

cheers
Abbe