condoms to explorers?

[webbie]

there has been alot on the news and in papers about giving sexual protection to scouts/explorers.

personally i run a "no sexual activity of any kind" at camp rule, with some lee way, but every case must be treated individually, plus with leaders being legally incharge of the young people if they did end up having kids then i feel we would be left to fend for ourselfs and the scout assoc would wash there hands of us.

what are your thoughts?

 

[w00dsmoke]

As a communtiy worker I'm am really cautious as to regards anyones motives for posting such a question on a family bushcraft site.

I really do think you need to stop posting provocative posts Webbie.

 

[webbie]

As a communtiy worker I'm am really cautious as to regards anyones motives for posting such a question on a family bushcraft site.

I really do think you need to stop posting provocative posts Webbie.

my motives behind the post are to find out what other leaders from around the country think of this move by the scout association, if any-one is offended by the post then please let me know and i shall lock it and ask a mod to delete, as it is not meant to offened any-one but to start a disscussion?

may i also ask what other posts i have made that are provocative?

webbie

 

[Andyre]

there has been alot on the news and in papers about giving sexual protection to scouts/explorers.

personally i run a "no sexual activity of any kind" at camp rule, with some lee way, but every case must be treated individually, plus with leaders being legally incharge of the young people if they did end up having kids then i feel we would be left to fend for ourselfs and the scout assoc would wash there hands of us.

what are your thoughts?

I have the same policy as yourself when it comes to Explorers, although i am not for one minute going to think that the explorers will always adhere to it.
One of the best policies i have seen is on a very well organised annual event, where the organisers do not condone sexual activity but make it well known that contraceptive is available on request.

We are always telling the explorers that they are young adults and as such we must treat them as such

As for this being provacative i dont see this being so. This is in the leaders area and i was at a GSL's meeting last night and this subject was being disscussed by a few of the leaders there.

 

[SimonM]

As a Scout leader, teacher and parent of 2 kids both in the Scouts (1 Cub / 1 Scout) I have very mixed feelings about this.

• As a Science teacher I cover the topic of reproduction in secondary school openly and honestly. It is a very fine line tho. If I am percieved as encouraging under age sexual activity I could find myself in very deep water.
  
• As a Scout leader, thankfully all my charges are under the age of consent so this doesn't affect me! But if I suspected that any of the Scouts were sexually active I would advise them to speak to their parents / GP etc. I would also register my concerns with the GSL.
  
• As a parent, I would hope that both of my kids would come to us for advice. We have an honest approach and don't see any future problems in this respect. However, from experience, not all families are so fortunate and I can see potential problems if parents find out, after the act, that Leaders were issueing condoms on camps.

I think most off us acknowledge that good education (not always in school - parents should play a major role here!) is the key to safe, healthy sexual activity. There are no quick fixes and this is sure to develop into a very heated debate.

Simon

 

[webbie]

after reading andys comment i just remembered of a similar unit that have a first aid kit per patrol and in these kits are some condoms so that the young person has access to them if need be, i can imagine that a fair few of these condoms turn into ballons, but still a good idea imo

 

[Andyre]

I can see potential problems if parents find out, after the act, that Leaders were issueing condoms on camps.

I can see your point, the activity that i mentioned is only open to over 16 years old so the problem of under age of consent is not an issue, I have found in the past that this only happens with the older explorers (17+) and that to be honest i have never had any situations (that i am aware of) most of the time on camps/expeditions the explorers are self regulating.

 

[Mang]

There's a massive thread on this topic on www.escouts.org.uk

 

[phaserrifle]

damm, if I read this I wouldn't have gone out and bought some to keep in my wallet (just in case)

on a more serious note, I think that there are three basic lines that society (as a whole) can take on the subject of teenage sex, each with thier own disadvantages;

1) rigidly tell everyone it is a bad thing, solidly enforce the legal age of consent, attempt to hide the existance of sex from all young people. this would lead to underage sex being driven underground, and teen pregancy and std's would be rife amoungst those who do take part, as it would be very diffiicult to aquire protection. simmilar scenario (only possibly bigger) for no sex outside marrige

2) take the line society is currently taking, by trying to inform young people of the subject, while promoting safe sex, and making protection easily available. while teenage sex may increase, std's and pregnancy would hopefuly be less common, as the majority of teenagers are aware of the use of protection.

3) leave the teenagers to it, potentialy leading to lots of teenage sex, and an explosion in std's and pregnancy as advice on protection would not be given out, and so fewer would use them.

personaly I think that the route society is taking is the most sensible route, as it would be very difficult to stop teenage sex (once its started, it's very diffiicult to reverse) while leaving us to it would be potentialy disasterous.

on a far lighter note my aunt recons its all a storm in a teacup, as any teen that goes to scouts obviously has no sex life.

 

[DKW]

Well. Could be that i am from another country, however i am a scout-leader, and active in various activities for the younger amongst us. (aswell as adults)

With the scouts we do not have any official policy, nor do i myself have one.
It is obvious for any that sexual activities in the tent/the bivouak/the shelter, would be very ill seen upon, as everybody has to get some sleep.
It is also obvious that if the teenagers can see that sexual activities simply does not belong on the average scout-trip, the younger ones would most likely understand this too, if they are even younger, they won't be thinking of such things anyway.

But handing out condoms...... well..... why???
If they are old enough to have sex, and they sleep in a seperate tent far far away, then they are old enough to have allready thought of preservatives.
There is no way in h.... i am going to hand out preservatives to my scouts, and there will be no preservatives in the med-kit either.
I will happily take the teens by their hand, drag them down to the pharmacy or whereever you might buy preservatives, and make them buy them themselves. But hand it out to them..... No. Def. not.

As said, it might just be because im a Dane, i see it this way, i am concerned about "my" kids don't get me wrong on that one. I find it better to help them, help themselves instead.

WHat i am even more concerned about, is that we here in Denmark possibly could end up in "policyland" regarding scouts, as you are allready in England. That would indeed be a tragedy.

 

[webbie]

WHat i am even more concerned about, is that we here in Denmark possibly could end up in "policyland" regarding scouts, as you are allready in England. That would indeed be a tragedy.

buy this man a beer! scouting is nothing like the way i feel it should be with all th POR stuff, yes they are there to keep our backs covered but in normal practise i feel they can be to strict

 

[DKW]

buy this man a beer!

I would love one

scouting is nothing like the way i feel it should be with all th POR stuff, yes they are there to keep our backs covered but in normal practise i feel they can be to strict

Can be? They are.
The scouts i am with (we have several org's in Denmark) are closely related to BP-scouts of England, and i regularly speak to a couple of english scoutleaders, have even had visits from them.
WHat they told me about how things are "over there" is utterly appaling, forgive me for saying this, but how on earth can you actually "do" scouting with the kids, when you are not allowed to do anything like in the old days?

I would be very sad to see the same tendency jumping across the litlle ocean between us to say the least.
As it is now in DK we do not have any rules or policys on what we can and can not do, apart from the obvious rules: For climbing with the kids, you need a climbing-instructorlicense for instance.
Very obvious rules really.

Cover our own bums..... well. I surely don't need my behind covered by anything apart from my underpants. And i wouldn't want to have either.

 

[John Fenna]

I was a Scout ASL and then Venture Leader.
POR almost killed our group as we could get nothing done .I stayed in quite a while - got my LSD but now have little to do with Scouts.
Our officials enforced that the Scouts all wore PFDs if they within 2metres of deep water.
Or Scout hut garden has only a wall between it and the river so - it would seem - they were suposed to wear bouyancy aids to walk from the scout hut to the boat shed!

 

[SimonM]

on a far lighter note my aunt recons its all a storm in a teacup, as any teen that goes to scouts obviously has no sex life.

My old Venture Scout Leader would ague differently! He had one heck of a job keeping us away from the Ranger Guides!

More importantly, I am now in the same group as him, assisting, and he never lets me forget and threatens to tell my kids how bad I was "in the day"!

Looking back, this must have a been a problem for decades (I'm 38). At least we, as a Movement, acknowledge that it happens and try to keep our young people safe.

Simon

 

[phaserrifle]

My old Venture Scout Leader would ague differently! He had one heck of a job keeping us away from the Ranger Guides!

More importantly, I am now in the same group as him, assisting, and he never lets me forget and threatens to tell my kids how bad I was "in the day"!

Looking back, this must have a been a problem for decades (I'm 38). At least we, as a Movement, acknowledge that it happens and try to keep our young people safe.

Simon

I couldn't comment on rangers, i've never met one. most of the girls in explorers that I've come across are either immature, or otherwise mental. But the others..............:Wow:

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

At the end of the day a leader has 'loco parentis' in the eyes of the law and also is reponsible for the legal 'Child protection'.

Follow whatever the organisation policy is TO THE LETTER.

To protect yourself and the young pople.

Nick

 

[Chips]

As an fairly recent ex-scout, I think it's a good idea. I often forgot things for camps, or an oppurtunity would present itself when you didn't expect it and therefore weren't carrying protection.

I was never in explorers, but it would be good if they were handed out in scouts too. There was a lot more sex going on at camps than you'd think. And the leaders were always unaware. It used to go on pretty much everywhere, from the icelandic store tent to a patch of gorse in one particularly amusing incident. Most of the antics happened on longer and larger camps, where you could talk to the girls more and attract them to you. Strip poker used to be played a lot of the time. And at larger camps, there were more girls. Plus, foreign girls always found us interesting, and we always found at least some of the foreign girls attractive.

 

[brancho]

There is a bit of misinformation going on here.

Firstly the facts are teh SA has produced a factsheet with guidance to Leaders so we have a common policy Look HERE to read it if you wish.

We can and do most things that BP encourages in scouting for boys some Leaders are under the impression wrongly in many cases they are not allowed to do things.

 

[brancho]

Here is what the SA has to say specifically on the issue of giving out condoms to Explorer Scouts who are 14and half to 18 years old:

 The adult should only provide contraception if they believe the young person is very likely to begin or continue having intercourse with or without contraception. However, if on a Scouting activity leaders should ensure that young people are aware of what is and is not appropriate behaviour at Scouting events.
 Unless the young person receives contraceptive advice or treatment, their physical or mental health are likely to suffer.

 

[Cairodel]

If they are old enough to have sex, and they sleep in a seperate tent far far away, then they are old enough to have allready thought of preservatives.

Nothing like Jam on it...
I'll get my coat....