Compulsory registration for all British bird keepers proposed

[EdS]

Good.

Might cut down on the number of Statutory Nuisance and rat infestation jobs relating to poultry and pigeons I VE to deal with

 

[slowworm]

If livestock is deliberately released and is wandering freely across other peoples land where the owner of the livestock does not have commoners rights or a prior agreement with the actual landowner then it’s legally speaking an act of trespass. Strangely this is something I have experienced once when a neighbour mistakenly “returned” a sheep that was not one of mine. Since no harm was done it was a simple matter to split the sheep off and return it to its real owner. Allowing livestock to roam on roads is also illegal. The problem is often caused by fools wandering through and not closing gates properly.

I can think of 8 different farms round here where the livestock have been on the road, all have escaped due to poor fencing. Most have been collected when I've told the farmer but there's a couple that have let them roam for weeks. I've offered to help repair their fencing a number of times but it still took them a year to do it.

That's my point, the current laws are not upheld so I see little reason for even more laws so people can ignore them as well.

As for rats, when I kept poultry I didnt have any problems with rats until our neighbour started to feed the their birds. I think bird feeding causes far more problems with vermin.

 

[SaraR]

As a beekeeper, I’m on BeeBase (it’s not a requirement, just strongly encouraged) and that is no hassle and has only been helpful. They ask how many hives you have and if you had any winter losses once a year (online form - takes seconds (if you can remember your password)) and you get an email every now and then if there are a lot of starving colonies, or similar threats, so that you can keep and eye on yours. Should there be a disease outbreak in your area, they’ll inform you and probably come to check your hives, but other than that there has been nothing. It’s free as well.

 

[Paul_B]

What's the problem? Data? Phone, email, tesco clubcard. Nectar card, etc. You're tracked whatever you do in the modern world.

As to registering not got a problem if there's a reason behind it. I suspect avian flu is one such reason. Also if you're not willing to register then what other things are you not going to do if you have birds? There's enough ppl round here with a few chickens and no indoor facilities or segregation from wild birds. Some ppl just see them as a different kind of pet it seems.

BTW is avian flu going to get as bad as foot and mouth for farms and ppl who have birds? Just curious if it is becoming a driver for a big change in farming birds?

 

[British Red]

There's enough ppl round here with a few chickens and no indoor facilities or segregation from wild birds. Some ppl just see them as a different kind of pet it seems.

Out of interest how many of them have been prosecuted?

 

[slowworm]

What's the problem? Data? Phone, email, tesco clubcard. Nectar card, etc. You're tracked whatever you do in the modern world.

There's several problems with registering. Firstly if I don't or I forget to renew each year I could be fined £5k and possibly get a criminal record with the associated repercussions. I would be concerned that you will have to pay to register, perhaps not now but in the future. I would expect it would be similar to other laws in that it would only likely be the responsible people who will sign up and your irresponsible pet hen keepers would carry on as they are.

I also can't see a huge risk with bird flu and it seems to be driven by the large producers trying to stop small producers. If I have three hens that catch bird flu and die what's the difference between that and having several wild birds dead in the garden with bird flu? I can see the risk of a large shed of thousands of chickens catching it and it possibly mutating and being passed on to humans in a confined space but not back yard hens. I would be interested to see some independent research on this.

To be honest I think it would be similar to something like forcing people to register to have a knife.

 

[Paul_B]

There's many things you legally have to do each year, if it's something you have to do you do it. Car tax, car insurance, etc. The chances of being caught without them is probably the same as not registering birds. However I bet you still do those things just like you'll do the bird registration if that's what you have to do.

 

[slowworm]

When I was a small child remember I pretended to fill in forms. I rapidly grew out it of the habit and frankly have better uses for my time now I'm an adult.

If there is a good reason to register then show me and I'd make the time. No one has yet.

Also its about costs. If it is very important to register then the resources must be put into it to ensure everyone complies, that'll cost in taxes or fees. Again for me to support such a thing I'd need to be convinced there's good reason.

 

[Paul_B]

So we shouldn't get insurance, road tax, etc because there's millions driving without it. Not a serious argument just comparing things.

 

[British Red]

There's many things you legally have to do each year, if it's something you have to do you do it. Car tax, car insurance, etc. The chances of being caught without them is probably the same as not registering birds. However I bet you still do those things just like you'll do the bird registration if that's what you have to do.

Actually that's entirely inaccurate. We now have ANPR as an example. You drive an untaxed or uninsured vehicle far, you can bet you'll be fined. A great deal of effort has been put into enforcement. The independent review into farm regulation (the same review that recommended all birds be registered) highlighted how important it was that monitoring and enforcement go hand in hand with regulation. It's really worth reading for an informed discussion in this subject

The Glenys Stacey Farm Inspection& Regulation Review can be read here:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ection-regulatio-review-final-report-2018.pdf

 

[rarms]

We’re already registered as poultry keepers, I don’t have any issues with it as it allows DEFRA to keep an overview of hygiene, numbers and welfare while issuing targeted local notifications of diseases in your area. I’m also registered as a bee keeper and smallholder. There is no point in getting paranoid about it, it won’t do much good because it is almost certainly going to happen after the irresponsible way many new poultry keepers have been acting during the period when their birds should have been confined in a roofed structure to protect them from bird flu. If people are not prepared to invest in suitable housing then perhaps they shouldn’t be keeping poultry.
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Toddy said
“My garden alone has everything from crows and woodpigeons to the occasional moorhen and heron.....and about twenty other kinds of birds, on a daily basis.
There are folks around here with garden hens, they too must get visited by those wild birds. That's true right across the country.”
This is the problem with bird flu in a nutshell, many back yard keepers are utterly clueless as to the danger that they pose to themselves or the greater poultry industry with their few unregistered bantams that are exposed to wild birds poop.

How many bird flu outbreaks have there been in back yard flocks, I don't recall many if any, maybe the guy in Devon who caught bird flu, but then from memory his ducks actually lived in his house with him? Seems reminiscent of the whole covid isolation lockdown rubbish to me, trigger happy reaction before anyone actually has any data as to how the disease spreads etc...

But without monitoring & enforcement, is there any point in registration?

Not that I can see

There's several problems with registering. Firstly if I don't or I forget to renew each year I could be fined £5k and possibly get a criminal record with the associated repercussions. I would be concerned that you will have to pay to register, perhaps not now but in the future. I would expect it would be similar to other laws in that it would only likely be the responsible people who will sign up and your irresponsible pet hen keepers would carry on as they are.

I also can't see a huge risk with bird flu and it seems to be driven by the large producers trying to stop small producers. If I have three hens that catch bird flu and die what's the difference between that and having several wild birds dead in the garden with bird flu? I can see the risk of a large shed of thousands of chickens catching it and it possibly mutating and being passed on to humans in a confined space but not back yard hens. I would be interested to see some independent research on this.

To be honest I think it would be similar to something like forcing people to register to have a knife.

This pretty much mirrors how my thoughts on the issue