Burn gel

[Toddy]

.............

Frustrating, yes. But it’s just the way it goes. Otherwise we would still be rubbing milk in burns........

"The fat and protein content in milk soothes burns and promotes healing, Dr. Hops explains in Kitchen Cabinet Cures. Soak the burn in milk for 15 minutes for quick relief. Full-fat, whole-milk yogurt can also help cool and hydrate your parched skin."

There are dozens of books out that recommend this.

Honestly, it's all coming around again

 

[Janne]

As milk is isotonic, it should be ok on wounds?
I am not a milk user, being Lactose intolerant.
Fully ok with mature cheese, but I doubt a smear of mature Gorgonzola will feel good on a wound or burn....
The mold is a Penicillium though...


Ok, burn gel.
So, what is it? What does it do?
https://www.drugs.com/otc/127949/burnaid-burn-gel.html
( just a random one I found)

 

[Toddy]

I don't think that's the same stuff we mean, Janne. That's a burn aid in a gel form. The Burngel we use is this stuff.
Ingredients: LIDOCAINE HYDROCHLORIDE 2g in 100mL
Labeler: Water-Jel Technologies
NDC Code: 59898-200
https://www.drugs.com/otc/102099/burn-jel.html


It was at a Scottish meet up and young Joe touched, and literally just touched, hot metal. In moments it was obvious that he had the kind of really sore constantly nipping wee burns on his fingertips. Really sensitive child's fingertips, and even though he held his hand in cold water, etc., nothing took away the pain. He was trying very hard not to cry, but we could see just how sore it was.
After that we had a discussion and the burngel came up. Since then I've carried it with me, and I'm pretty sure Joe's parents have too.
It works, it stops the pain of those really sore little burns.

 

[Bootfox]

Again, personal use? Do what you like. But Water is the best thing for a burn. And with the access the medical facilities like we do nowadays there’s no reason for half these old wives tales.

But if you are dealing with other people, or an organised event, or industry, you need the correct procedures and equipment. Standing up in court and claiming that “my mum once poured milk over my burns” will not stand. You react with your competency and training.

Medical evidence and statistical driven facts and training? Yea it works. And it moves with the times. The fire service, combat medics, paramedics, offshore medics and countless others carry a roll of clingfilm in their trauma kit because it’s the perfect dressing for burns, it sticks to itself not the wound.


Look, I used to be the most blasé about it and have a complete cavalier attitude towards HSE and the like. But having dealt with situations to me, and involved with incidents in the UK and abroars. Being prepared and trained and having the correct gear(or improvised) will save lives and make a difference.

To get back on topic, burn gel is only useful and handy for small minor burns. If you had a deep burn, a burn bigger than your hand, or from an electrical or chemical burn, you will need to seek medical attention. End of story.

 

[Toddy]

I don't think you've taken in the entire thread. No one has said to use the Burngel for anything but those little burns.

No one's disputing that H&S and modern burn care is how we would treat things, now.
By the same token, not everyone has access to immediate medical care, and wide knowledge is a very good thing (and no, I'm not advocating milk ) the OP was trying to lighten his pack, much like a lot of folks these days.

Don't panic and think you can't deal with something just because you don't have clingfilm/whatever immediately to hand (on that note, I no longer use clingfilm anywhere if it can be avoided at all, and there are a lot of anti single use plastic folks around) and all too often first aid course providers are as much about covering your backside as they are about teaching how to effectively deal with everything from scrapes to broken bones to heart attacks.

However, latest advice from the NHS.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/burns-and-scalds/treatment/

Janne's advice to actually practice doing things with hands or legs out of action is practical.
Some of the places we wander you really do need to be able to get yourself out.
Right enough, nowadays we have phones, and good phone coverage, so folks rely on those.
What if it doesn't work though ?

 

[Bootfox]

I don't think you've taken in the entire thread. No one has said to use the Burngel for anything but those little burns.

No one's disputing that H&S and modern burn care is how we would treat things, now.
By the same token, not everyone has access to immediate medical care, and wide knowledge is a very good thing (and no, I'm not advocating milk ) the OP was trying to lighten his pack, much like a lot of folks these days.

Don't panic and think you can't deal with something just because you don't have clingfilm/whatever immediately to hand (on that note, I no longer use clingfilm anywhere if it can be avoided at all, and there are a lot of anti single use plastic folks around) and all too often first aid course providers are as much about covering your backside as they are about teaching how to effectively deal with everything from scrapes to broken bones to heart attacks.

However, latest advice from the NHS.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/burns-and-scalds/treatment/

Janne's advice to actually practice doing things with hands or legs out of action is practical.
Some of the places we wander you really do need to be able to get yourself out.
Right enough, nowadays we have phones, and good phone coverage, so folks rely on those.
What if it doesn't work though ?

Exactly. Stick by those guidelines.

You shouldn’t rely on technology, but the basis of improvisation is knowledge and training coupled with thinking outside the box.

I’m not advocating practising things, but you should be prepared, to the level of your training.

It’s no different to learning and carrying a map and compass, even though you carry a GPS. Things go wrong, you adapt and overcome, but without a good solid basis of knowledge, training and experience, it could have dire effects.

I think we are just arguing the same points.

 

[Janne]

Ok, so the burn gel in discussion is just a thickened local anesthetic.

All it does is to numb the wound. IMO totally useless then.
The Gods created pain with one purpose:
Avoid using the damaged area, be aware of it?
(Plus, to teach the individual a lesson? . )

 

[Janne]

I personally never bring a mobile phone, or electronics of any sort, with me.
I want to get away from that kind of stress.
I just try to avoid getting into trouble where a mobile would be useful.

 

[Woody girl]

When I did my first, first aid training many years ago (girl guide first aider badge)we were taught to improvise. Ie how to immobilise a broken leg with newspapers or sticks board etc and scarfs or other items of clothing. Bad Burns advice was cold water and a clean burn dressing plus seek imediate medical treatment. Also how to use a safety pin and a jumper to improvise a sling for a broken arm or collar bone.
I don't think.. (definatly in my modern experience ) they teach this anymore. It's all modern things like sam splints etc.

Not arguing that modern methods are not effective. They are and I guess burn gel has its uses for small burns as mentioned. If you have a major problem like a severe burn. It makes sense to treat with cold water and seek medical help ASAP. No argument from me there!
I've once had an arterial bleed from my wrist. Luckily my instinct was to apply pressure. Sit down. raise arm. and call for help! I only lost 3 sqirts! of blood. Knowing what to do in any given situation is more important than anything else. Being able to keep a cool head and not panic or freeze is vital.

 

[Janne]

I had to create a splint from one ski.
Plants/ trees around me were of the Arctic version, stunted and convoluted.
I had a choice, use one of the poles, or one of the skis.
I did try to use the carbine ( Heckler and Koch G3) but it being metal I felt it would possibly cause freezing on the skin and more.
My thinking of butchering one ski was that I still could use it as support, not to glide on, for the damaged leg.
Slide on the other leg. Keeping balance with the poles.

My damage was a lucky parachute landing, all ligaments torn off, both meniscuses torn loose and crushed.
I was alone around 40 km from closest help. About -35C or so, which was good in a way.

I will never forget the worst part, straightening the knee into correct position. I had a couple of Morfia ampoules but was to afraid to use them.

Ended my mil career, but then a decade later Cold War ended and Sweden scrapped most units. So a lucky end outcome!

Yes, keeping a clear head helps, but we can never be sure how we react in bad situations.

I think some pain is beneficial to be frank.

On YouTube, I sometimes see horrendously bad knife skills, or fire procedures.

On TV, I find Mr Grylls giving and showing totally wrong ways and procedures.
One of my pet hates he does is the way he moves in unknown terrain.
With my unfortunate experience I know what it means to have a damaged leg.
TV should educate in the only the correct ways, but I guess that is not so spectacular and fun viewing?

 

[Bootfox]

Exactly. One of the major downsides of having all the gear and no idea is having no ability to improvise with what you have on the ground.

 

[Broch]

I have read this thread with some amusement to be honest; I'll stay away from all the old 'cottage ways' thank you . When I was in hospital as an eleven year old a girl was brought in with severe burns to her legs from a saucepan of water that had been knocked off the cooker. For some inexplicable reason her mother had covered the burns with flour!!! - that took some sorting.

Toddy, for those small burns, the annoying little ones on your fingers and the back of the hand, have you ever tried Aloe Vera (preferably straight from the plant but the 98% tube versions work too)? It instantly sooths and the burn is virtually healed the day after (I joke not, if you've not tried it give it a go).

 

[Toddy]

Cottage ways ? you can't have it both ways !

I have tried the aloe vera, I grow it in pots in the house, and I have tried the native houseleek too.
Very good for scrapes, itches, etc., but neither stops the pain the way the lidocaine in the Burngel does.

Bakers, commercial bakers, used to use the flour to stop the pain of a burn. I've tried it...make sure you use plain flour or bread flour, self raising is not a good idea.
Funnily enough though, it worked....but again, like the milk, not something one would really recommend nowadays.

Truthfully I'm a hearty sceptic, but experience beats scepticism

M

 

[Broch]

Yep, I realised the hypocrisy of my post

The doctors were more than cross with the use of flour in the 60's - for serious burns it can add weeks to the recovery process I was told; apart from anything else it draws moisture away from the burn area - but what do doctors know?

Slightly off-topic - I was told, on the last first aid course I was on, that any type of 'cream' is now considered a no-no - even antiseptic creams. They have been shown to carry germs and can't easily be washed off!! You're not allowed to have any such cream in a work first aid kit apparently.

 

[Toddy]

Uhuh, and I duly updated the one I took along to group meets.
At best those antiseptic creams are one use only, from sealed, went the information I was given.

The wee tin of Germolene lasted for years as I recall......and we didn't go down with any flesh eating buggits....unlike modern hospitals, one notes.

I could well imagine that the flour would cause issues on a larger burn, but as I said, it's an old baker's tip that has had a lot of use, and still gets used.

Much like the spider's web to stop a bleeding cut.
There's another old 'cure' that wouldn't pass any H&S these days !

 

[Janne]

The web of a spider creates a framework for a strong blood cloth. Also, many webs are colonized with Penicilinum molds.

First time I hear about flour on a burn.
Wheat? Rye?


In the old, pre MD days, people did find stuff that worked.

Some treatments were gruesome though!

 

[Toddy]

They were indeed...maggots to eat a wound clean for instance, or leeches to help restore blood flow after a bad wound or clear out bruising, or honey on ulcers to help heal them close healthily....oh wait, we're using all those again, aren't we ?

Then again, they used to use glowing red pokers to seal wounds too, we call that cauterization nowadays and use wee electrical hand held things to do it neatly, and cleanly.

They also used boric acid (H3BO3), in water to clean sticky eye infections on babies, I found it both gently soothing and effective on my own eyes, but there would be enormous outcries now if someone suggested going back to that mix your own. Not only from BigPharma who have hugely vested interests in expensive wee bottles of chemical soup drops, but from everyone who feels that in the past people knew nothing, or certainly nothing safe and worth using.

Change for changes sake usually financially benefits someone other than the consumer.

I'm not disagreeing with you Janne, because there really are some absolutely dreadful 'cures' in the past, and a heck of a lot of snake oil stuff that was full of hype and boffo, but it wasn't all bad.


M

 

[Janne]

Heck no, many cures and procedures were very useful and are, as you point out, done today, albeit in a modern packaging.

Many medications today, and tomorrow’s, are based on compounds from plants and fungi.

Pain is the body’s way telling you “do not do this, I am hurt, need rest so I can heal”.
To use a painkiller on a small burn, or cut, or a sprained joint or back, - why?

( of course, large ‘stuff’ might need pain meds)

 

[Toddy]

Mind what I said about young Joe ? a moments in attention resulted in a crying, upset and obviously in pain, child, on a campsite full of adults who know him and his family....anything that would have stopped that pain would have been a kindness.
That's all it is really, it's a painkiller for little sore burns, especially good on sensitive bits like fingertips.

For myself once I'm sure the burn isn't serious, that it's just a touch one that might not even blister, but it really, really hurts and stings, then I'll find the Burngel. Thankfully I'm rarely clumsy enough to need it, but when I do, again, it's a kindness.

M

 

[Janne]

Yes, children are different. I write about people our age ( mid 20's! )


In my work, our methods are less painful than when I started. Needle tech has taken major steps, they are sharper, we can choose thinner ( outside diameter) needles, and so on. I sense a clear difference between old people and young people then, and old people and young people now.
Tolerance to pain has gone down.
I think it is mainly expectation. Old people 30 years ago were used to no, or very little pain relief, and learned how to cope with it. Also different cultures have different expectations on pain.

Just before I wrote this, I removed a semi loose baby tooth on a 9 year old, using only a topical anesthetic.

Yes, there are topicals that have an action that penetrate the gingiva AND a mm or two of bone!


I did expect the Brit Burn Gel to contain anti inflammatory, a cooling agent and antiseptic. But it is 'only' a pain relief.