Buffalo 4S Outer sleeping bag
- Thread starter MikeLA
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I got a couple of buffalo items on ebay recently, not quite as advertised as there is apparantly a subtle difference between a 4S inner with a 4S outer and a 4S inner with a lightweight outer and what I got was the latter rather than the former. What appeals to me is the ability to combine one or either with various other combinations to adapt to a variety of temperatures and conditions. I figure it ought to work well with the standard British army bivvy bag anyway though I am yet to find out.
I’ve got the set, I even had an old Slumberdown liner for a bit. If I sleep without clothing I tend to find the system cold, it seems to work better wearing base layers. This differs (for me) to other down and synthetic bags. I don’t really use the Pertex liner I either just use the inner or the outer. You need a bigger compression sac if you’re using both bags together - the British Army sleeping bag (old style, 90(?) pattern) compression sac works. The fit is just (but designed to be so), no space to move around and a bit odd if you’re not used to it. The hood zip is weird, it does work but again odd compared to traditional styles. I think overall the style and technology is dated, Buffalo bags came out 40 years ago and it shows. They are still functional and I do enjoy using mine but the price tag is high (£300 + for the inner and outer) for what you get if you buy new now. Personally and depending on your budget I’d go for surplus or high quality bags aimed at the military market, you’ll get a lot more for your money.
Hi Mike
I have a green 4 season outer and combined with light outdoor trousers and shirt(both cotton), I was good down to 8 degrees in fairly dry conditions .
If I add a buffalo top I can squeeze out another few degrees out of it, adding buffalo trousers i guess would make it much warmer but I haven't tried this.
I would rate it as a spring-summer-autumn bag if used on its own but certainly not for winter unless you combine it with something else.
A few things I can say with certainty though....
They will put up with stupid amounts of abuse and are easy to home repair.
They are excellent in wet conditions.
They weigh a ton.
I have a green 4 season outer and combined with light outdoor trousers and shirt(both cotton), I was good down to 8 degrees in fairly dry conditions .
If I add a buffalo top I can squeeze out another few degrees out of it, adding buffalo trousers i guess would make it much warmer but I haven't tried this.
I would rate it as a spring-summer-autumn bag if used on its own but certainly not for winter unless you combine it with something else.
A few things I can say with certainty though....
They will put up with stupid amounts of abuse and are easy to home repair.
They are excellent in wet conditions.
They weigh a ton.
Just seen a lot of you tube vid’s on them. Made me remember friends buying them in the forces. I still carry heavy bigger bags for a good nights sleep an old issue 90 pattern. Need centre zips because i never sleep still. Tried the newer bags and down bags, just too restrictive. Wondered what people thought of them without the extreme hate or great opinion.
I seem to remember the appeal was a sort of golden promise of 'go to be wet , wake up dry' theme. Not sure if they achieved that but I do remember how bulky they were.
If you don't like restrictive - I have a Snugpak antarctica with an expanda panel - I find that really fits the bill for me.
I have more or less stopped using mine and its relegated to a kids summer car camping bag or when I know its just going to get abused. I also have a few other sleeping bags like the old bouncing bomb 90s army sleeping bag and the modern Carinthia version but all of those are also used for car camps.
I also fidget in my sleep so looked at other options other than a mummy style bag. One of the systems I tried was the quilt and i pretty much use that system all the time now, tons of room to fidget etc. Most quilts are down filled but a there are a few synthetic models around if you want something more moisture resistant. Another added bonus of quilts is the reduced weight/packed size compared to a similar rated sleeping bag.
I also fidget in my sleep so looked at other options other than a mummy style bag. One of the systems I tried was the quilt and i pretty much use that system all the time now, tons of room to fidget etc. Most quilts are down filled but a there are a few synthetic models around if you want something more moisture resistant. Another added bonus of quilts is the reduced weight/packed size compared to a similar rated sleeping bag.
I have the inner and outer bag and use them in all sorts of conditions. Even though I am not of a small size they fit very comfortably for me. I move a lot around in my sleep and toss and turn a lot.
I am also a warm sleeper and find the use of the arm zips very handy for keeping me in the right place and cool enough to get a good sleep and only need to close them up in the coldest of conditions normally around -10 till I take my arms in the outer bag but keep them out of the inner bag, once it get below -15 then i may consider putting them in on both bags.
I use them in various conditions with other equipment as well such as Jervens Bags, Bivi bags, roll mats, swags, and even hammocks. The major advantage for me is the capability to use my arms but still be in the bags all snuggly and be able to put a brew on. because you can use your arms they also work well in hammocks in colder climates and because the filling is not a loft based one but a fleece based one it works very well for overall coverage and find I get very few cold spots like most sleep bags in hammocks.
I normally only use a poncho liner as my under-quilt as it packs small and for hammocks the main thing you are fighting is convection cooling effect and in winter I use a Jervens bag over the top with a couple of poles over the top. The in my buffalo bag/bags and I am good down to below -20 C in Scandinavia.
looking at the bulk i find it better to store the bags separately rather than one inside each other and pack them loose around the rest of my kit inside my Bergen/rucksack they works very well for all sleeping bags but especially for the buffalo bags and because of the pile and pertex constructions they last a lot long the all my synthetic and down fill bags my buffalo bags date for the 80's and are still going strong over 40 years later. Not the smallest or lightest but they work and stand the test of time. same thing you find with all buffalo products. The tend to get borrowed or taken long before they wear out.
I am also a warm sleeper and find the use of the arm zips very handy for keeping me in the right place and cool enough to get a good sleep and only need to close them up in the coldest of conditions normally around -10 till I take my arms in the outer bag but keep them out of the inner bag, once it get below -15 then i may consider putting them in on both bags.
I use them in various conditions with other equipment as well such as Jervens Bags, Bivi bags, roll mats, swags, and even hammocks. The major advantage for me is the capability to use my arms but still be in the bags all snuggly and be able to put a brew on. because you can use your arms they also work well in hammocks in colder climates and because the filling is not a loft based one but a fleece based one it works very well for overall coverage and find I get very few cold spots like most sleep bags in hammocks.
I normally only use a poncho liner as my under-quilt as it packs small and for hammocks the main thing you are fighting is convection cooling effect and in winter I use a Jervens bag over the top with a couple of poles over the top. The in my buffalo bag/bags and I am good down to below -20 C in Scandinavia.
looking at the bulk i find it better to store the bags separately rather than one inside each other and pack them loose around the rest of my kit inside my Bergen/rucksack they works very well for all sleeping bags but especially for the buffalo bags and because of the pile and pertex constructions they last a lot long the all my synthetic and down fill bags my buffalo bags date for the 80's and are still going strong over 40 years later. Not the smallest or lightest but they work and stand the test of time. same thing you find with all buffalo products. The tend to get borrowed or taken long before they wear out.
Sorry to jump in bit what set up do you use with the jerven?
I've got a kingsize and trying to work out how to use it to best effect.
There is too much of a air gap between it and my back so I figure I'm doing something wrong/ need to get some shock cord and make it a tighter fit.
I use a poncho liner underneath me, bungees tied at both ends in the middle ties a short shock cord on close to me head and longer one at my foot. The ties outs on the edges are on shock cord about .5m tied to either side and passed through the centre one top and bottom.
The Jervens bag goes over the top of a central ridgeline and tied out on one side slightly on shock cord guy line to allow some circulation for the inside. This set up makes for a very warm micro climate in the depths of winter.
Next time I set it up, I'll post a thread about it. With photos.
I still have one i bought going on 20 years ago now in the loft.
I used it for a few years and they have some advantages;
They are quick to dry out if they get soaked
You can crawl into one dripping wet and the bag will dry out over night
The material is durable
They can be washed at home easily compared to a synthetic bag
However it was far too big to carry realistically with the rest of the kit I had to make room for. It isn't particularly warm compared to a synthetic bag, and certainly not a filled bag of the same size. You really do need the liner bag if you want to sleep out in the cold, and even then unless you're a warm sleeper it's pushing it in the winter. You need 3 "bags" for proper cold use (liner, inner & outer) and then a bivvy on top if its wet, it's just not practical.
I used it for a few years and they have some advantages;
They are quick to dry out if they get soaked
You can crawl into one dripping wet and the bag will dry out over night
The material is durable
They can be washed at home easily compared to a synthetic bag
However it was far too big to carry realistically with the rest of the kit I had to make room for. It isn't particularly warm compared to a synthetic bag, and certainly not a filled bag of the same size. You really do need the liner bag if you want to sleep out in the cold, and even then unless you're a warm sleeper it's pushing it in the winter. You need 3 "bags" for proper cold use (liner, inner & outer) and then a bivvy on top if its wet, it's just not practical.
Watching a video by bex bugout about these bags. He says fleece and feathers are the best way for cold sleepers. Other bags tend to hold the cold during the night. I kind of agree with the comment but others above have different experiences. I guess it’s the person and the body type. Interesting. Will have to try one out
I had a set in the mid-80s. I liked it when at a basecamp or on exercise with transport. I once humped it around Rannoch Moor and the Grey Corries on a bothying/Munroing AT trip at Easter in snowy conditions. No worries with the wet and abuse. Did dry out damp clothing overnight.
BUT:
I would add +1 to Limaed's and Watch-Keeper's first comments, above.
BUT:
- never really got warm enough for a solid, consistent night's sleep (and I was young and full of energy then, rarely feeling cold)
- my pack was outrageously large
- other people slept better in "ordinary" bags - Snugpak, ME, Alunjak(sp?), etc
- next similar trip I used an "ordinary" bag and slept soundly
I would add +1 to Limaed's and Watch-Keeper's first comments, above.
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