Bow drill coal to flame challenge (High jump rules)

[Jeff Wagner]

With regret, I have had absolutely no time to participate in this challenge that I started. January was our busiest month to date and nearly every waking moment has been spent making fire pistons. So, I will have to concede this round and plan better for the next. If you would kindly provide me with the address I will send the prize. Very well done.

 

[bocan]

now that sounds diabolical.ill give that a run imediately.

 

[rich59]

now that sounds diabolical.ill give that a run imediately.

Hi bocan, and welcome to BCUK. Looks like you spotted an interesting post there. First one to email Jeff gets the prize??? That sounds like a competition!!!

 

[rich59]

Bringing the thread back to bow drill tinders:-

I had a great day collecting all manner of potential tinders. Not a lot of testing though as I think they need to dry out a bit first. Also I now have the fabled Black Poplar inner bark drying out nicely (thanks Stew!!!)

Back to the challenge.

I thought this weekend I would anounce 2 standards as I am not sure how fast people might progress.

The 2 new standards are:-

1 minute 30 seconds

and

1 minute exactly

I wonder if putting the tinder under the notch will make for faster times. What can you do folks? Remember that the previous marks at 5 minutes and 2 minutes will continue to be available and people can join in at any level and any time.

 

[Seoras]

Glad you had a good day yesterday Richard. Mine today has been quite the opposite. Seem to have lost my mojo for the hand drill today with no success. Used every drill I could find and have come to the conclusion my Fire boards are a bit damp. I think I will try again tomorrow but take it real slow with the revolutions to begin with.

Read your thoughts on placing the Fire board over the tinder. Also watched a google video where this was shown. It is a cool video and I have used it when training my cadets. Daft but useful - Rapping Fire

After giving up on the hand drill I got some success with the Bow Drill (eventually). Tried a sisal nest first as I thought this would hold together well. It did but I could not get it to flame. Gave the straw nest a go under the Fire board and it held together surprisingly well. Got a flame from stopping drilling in 1 min 12 secs.

Will have another try tomorrow but it will be a lucky day to get it below 1 min. The hay and Fire boards are all on the radiators.

Good luck with the Poplar

Cheers

George

 

[rich59]

Hey George,

Thats a good improvement on your time .

I had the same problem as you with hand drill. I think I could have done it with more patience, but I thought I might have had to drill slowly for 5 - 10 minutes before it dried out and I didn't have the patience (or the energy). As the bow drill is mechanically easier that is why I am currently using that.

Interesting that sizle didn't go - like my lime bark. Dampness? or is it that fairly pure finely divided stuff is a problem? I have a gut feeling that a good tinder may need a mixture of textures. You might try mixing something non fibrous into the bundle - like with my lime bark and paper thin birch bark.

 

[BobFromHolland]

I found some lime bark in the park when I had a strole with my kids last saturday. Dried it out in a cotton bag on the radiator in the living room and tried it sunday evening.

This performed way better then the hay I used last time. Even much better then my 'all corners' try!!
Had first flame 40secs after the bowdrill ember. That time included transfer of coal to tinder bundle.

I will have a go at making the ember on top of the tinder bundle next and see if it can be done under 30 secs.

 

[stovie]

People have probably seen this before, but this is Goat Willow hearth and drill last Sept in the damp...The video is 1 min 26 seconds, ember to flame...but about 15 secs of that is burning tinder...

 

[rich59]

Stovie - thats a nice video. You started the video with a fresh coal. Looking at the timing bar your first flame came at about 60 seconds dead. So I think that includes you as achieving the minute standard. Well done.

 

[rich59]

And nice one Bob. I will try that lime bark again then.

I did time a go with my (slightly damp) lime bark fibre mixed with birch bark paper, placed under the notch to catch the coal, and got "bow stopping to flame" in about 50 seconds.

 

[Seoras]

Stovie, impressed with the video.

Will have to figure out the technical side to get a video up. Can anyne tell me if I film an attempt using my phone camera if this can be uploaded? Had problems with this before.

However not one for the competition but:

Made up an Elder Char tube based on Grahams tutorial using a cotton cleaning cloth as a wick. After priming I used a Flint & Steel to get an ember. This took only a few seconds to ignite into a coal.

I used a Jute tinder bundle and this thing went up in around 45 seconds. Got me thinking that a sprinkling of jute in the bundle will help when I next try the challenge.

Richard, can you confirm if this is OK or will that make it an 'All commer'?

Cheers

George

 

[rich59]

I seem to be having trouble with posting at the moment. There are a couple of messages I posted but don't seem to have appeared now on the site.

Anyway, it isn't easy being judge and jury but.... my take is that all acceptable contributions to the challenge will start from a bow (or hand) drill coal. Any materials used that are not made yourself from natural raw materials would count as an "all comers" attempt. So, I can't accept a time from flint and steel. A time from stopping drilling to flame using any of the mentioned materials would be fine but the starting point must be a friction coal.

 

[rich59]

Can anyne tell me if I film an attempt using my phone camera if this can be uploaded? Had problems with this before.

George,

If you look at the "Fire Bow" challenge thread that Jeff started you will see my notes on how I managed to convert to a different format with smaller file size and upload my video. "Photobucket" determine the formats and sizes allowed.

Reading it again I think I partly misunderstood your question about "all comers". If you can make a char tube from natural materials then that would be fine for a primitive entry. As for jute - I'll think about that one.

 

[rich59]

Jute,

I am being particularly thick today. The question is clearly whether Jute counts as a natural material. Have I got it right at last?

This is a "grey area" one. For the purposes of this competition though I feel a need for a decision. I would rule it as a modern manufactured product, unless you collected the wild/ raw material and processed it yourself. I hope that is fair. Welcome as an "all comers" though.

Jute by the way is in the same family as the mallows and the lime tree (linden tree). So some cleaned up lime bark fibre might do just as well.

 

[rich59]

I think so far we have done splendidly. We are certainly going to need to find the best materials and techniques to keep up with Bob. Since Bob has already alluded to it I might as well announce the next standard:-

New standard to achieve is 30 seconds. Good luck. Anyone new to the competitoin can enter at any currently or previously announced standard.

Story so far

One minute
Natural tinder
BobFromHolland 40 seconds
Stovie 60 seconds
Rich59 50 seconds

1 minute 30 seconds
Natural tinder
Seoras 1.12

All comers
BobfromHolland 1.03 (moved up to this standard)

2 Minutes Standard
Natural tinder
Seoras 1.50
BobfromHolland 1.30
Rich59

5 Minutes Standard
Natural tinder
Fenlander

Declared an entry

Jeff Wagner
Biddlesby

 

[rich59]

I finally got a go with a collection of many different tinders, a couple of hours, and a dry afternoon. I was on the quest for the perfect tinder. However, I soon stopped timing as getting a flame in any time was the main challenge. Roll on long, hot, dry summer days!

I used some punky rotten wood as coals for this experiment.

What did work time after time was something fibrous, and well rubbed, enclosed by newspaper (a substitute for birch or maple paper barks). I was hoping for something that gave flame in a couple of quick blows. But, I found I needed a good volume of slowly produced hot glowing fibres, not too loose and not too dense that seemed only possible with at least 6 controlled, not too forceful breaths.

Cedar bark, poplar inner bark (both of black and a locally growing different species), lime inner bark, clematis bark, grass, birch leaves, leylandii leaves were among many that did tolerably well, getting to flame in a few blows. (My lime bark was drier this time). But, nothing really stood out and nothing seemed to look like success in under 30 seconds was on the cards.

I think I will have a go at some charred material in a paper bark "cigar" next chance I get. Charred fibrous inner bark is my plan. I know lime bark is a good char and I suspect that poplar and cedar will be too.

I found reed mace interesting - 2 different parts. A) The seed heads would be fantastic to spread a tiny flame, but are not good in taking glow to flame. B) the leaves - light and hollow - if lit would burn very easily.

Got to get back out and collect some more material.

 

[Fenlander]

Slightly off topic, but i hope you don't mind Rich.......

I've been experimenting with flint and steel tinders to flame and the best by far is;

A piece of fine grade wire wool placed in common reed seed heads. When the spark from the flint and steel lands on the wire wool, a flame is instantly produced (far to quick to time).

Hope this is of interest

I can't get below a minute with the bow-drill ember so far.

 

[rich59]

Slightly off topic, but i hope you don't mind Rich.......

I've been experimenting with flint and steel tinders to flame and the best by far is;

A piece of fine grade wire wool placed in common reed seed heads. When the spark from the flint and steel lands on the wire wool, a flame is instantly produced (far to quick to time).

Hope this is of interest

I can't get below a minute with the bow-drill ember so far.

Fascinating. I suppose it might be possible to put your wire wool and reed seed heads under a fire bow notch and get a quick time as an "all comer" attempt? Have you tried your wire wool mixed with other materials?

 

[Fenlander]

Not yet, but I would think most downy sead-heads will work.

Happy Birthday Day by the way Rich

Getting back on topic, when I was on a course in Canada last winter, we were using Aspen wood (which had been attacked by the Aspen conk fungus) for bow-drill sets and as one of the other students was vigerously drilling the hearth board burst into flame

 

[Burnt Ash]

This morning I was reading Mors Kochanski's book. He describes "fine kindling" as material that will go to flame from a glowing ember.

I think most on here would call that tinder. Kindling is the material used in the next stage in fire extension, after the first flame has been produced in the tinder (from a spark or glowing ember).

Burnt Ash