Bow drill coal to flame challenge (High jump rules)

[rich59]

May I propose a fire challenge? Inspired by Jeff's challenge I wondered about the other half of fire making skills - getting that hard won coal to a flame. I hope it will be interesting and help develop our fire skills.

The challenge is to get from the newly formed coal from a bow drill to flame. I suggest that rather than going for the fastest straight away we simply raise the bar each week or so. There is actually no prize, just the honour. Also, I am not demanding a lot of evidence. While videos and photos are welcome, a description that someone else can follow would do equally as well. Could I also suggest that people not actually state their fastest time, but simply state that they got "over the bar".

OK then?

The clock starts ticking from the moment you stop the bowing (not when you see good smoke or a glow) and stops at first flame.

You can join in at any time. You can skip any round, and come back in later if you like. I aim to periodically post lists of the names of those who have achieved each challenge. Also if someone submits evidence late that they have achieved an earlier, slower standard they will get listed for that slower standard.

At some point we will get fed up and draw a line under it.

So,

The first challenge is hopefully possible for quite a few - a very comfortable 5 minutes. Video, or photo, or written description of materials and method must be submitted.

If people submit some whacky ideas using ultra modern materials for their tinder then I don't really mind, but I might separate the entries into "primitve" and "all comers".

 

[BobFromHolland]

Great stuff!

Now that's a challenge my neighbors will like

By the way... will charcloth be considered as 'primitive'?

I sadly have to leave for a couple of days, but will sure post my efford.

Bob

 

[Fenlander]

Ok.......mine was buffed Clemetis bark lined with Common Reed seed heads, and well under 5 minutes

 

[rich59]

Great stuff!

Now that's a challenge my neighbors will like

By the way... will charcloth be considered as 'primitive'?

I sadly have to leave for a couple of days, but will sure post my efford.

Bob

The neighbours might enjoy the smoke billowing their way. . Hmm charcloth. I think that would have to go in the "all comers" unless you made your own cloth from harvested fibre.

Fenlander - that's a good start.

Plenty of room for more contenders.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Sorry for my absence of late. The construction of fire pistons has kept me fully occupied. More than full actually.

I think this indeed a worthy challenge. Rich, I have not yet had an opportunity to focus on our last ( number of strokes ) challenge but I have not forgotten and the month is drawing down, so I had better get busy. Your excellent 4 or 8 stroke record will be very tough to better.

So I will toss my hat into the ring as well and also work on time to flame.

Following this I already have a new and very practical, real world situation challenge.

For your consideration - Suppose for a moment that through some calamity, you are stranded and injured. Your dominant hand is out of commission and you must make fire by primitive means with your weak hand - What do you do .....

 

[rich59]

Real life situation - I would think that I might first try reversing my hands in the bow drill method as the non dominant hand does very little apart from lock still and hold on hard. If that was not possible then may be I could figure a way of using my chest with a block of wood as the bearing block. Also I have heard of teeth/ mouth being used to hold a bearing block. Then flint and steel or fire piston might be available.

Time to flame - welcome aboard Jeff!!

So far that is one definite entry by Fenlander and two promises by BobfromHolland and Jeff Wagner.

Tomorrow I will be setting a new "bar height", but that does not stop people joining in at either the 5 minute level or at the new standard.

 

[Biddlesby]

I too will try this challenge! Been a while since I have made a coal. Perhaps I will see how some dried sphagnum moss I picked up will fare.

 

[rich59]

Well done Biddlesby.

Word of warning folks. The damp winter air may make life difficult. Drying your tinder in the house is probably essential at this time of year.

 

[rich59]

Position at this point is


Standard 5 minutes

Natural tinder

Fenlander

All comers


Declared an entry

Bob From Holland
Jeff Wagner
Biddlesby



I don't think I can declare a winner at this stage! But I will announce a new standard to achieve. The new standard is 2 minutes. People may still enter at the 5 minute level.

Can I declare an interest myself or should I remain just the administrator?

 

[Seoras]

Hi Guys

Was dithering whether or not to take part. Mostly due to lack of technical knowledge of uploading photos/video etc. My hand was called as my mother and stepfather are staying with me for the weekend. A fire was requested so out came one of my bows.

No pictures I am afraid as I had to go straight for it.

Materials:

Bow - Unknown wood
Drill - Hazel
Hearth - Pine
Bearing Block - Holly

The Bow was set up in the Egyptian style. That is a long piece of cordage attached to the drill with a clove hitch then the loose cord wrapped around the drill.

My nest was made up of some dampish hay I had in the garage with the addition of a Common Reed head and a sprinkling of Cramp Ball fungus. Felt the need for this as even with a good buffing of the hay it was still damp.

After one failed attempt (coal went out) my time from stopping bowing to first flame was 1 min 50 secs.

I will endeavour again in a few days when the hay is drier.

House is a bit smokey from bringing the flaming nest in but everyone is happy there is a fire now.

Good luck and I will try for some pictures or video next time if I can figure out the technology thing.

George

 

[Biddlesby]

Got the two minutes standard very comfortably. But then, I was about as close to cheating as you can get: paper thin birch bark and thistle down, in a dried sphagnum moss and birch bark mix, in a birch bark tube, with a crampball ember lit from flint and steel. Very extravagant!

No pictures of the process but I do have one of the ensuing fire!

I must try that egyptian style. Will play with bow drill tommorrow.

 

[rich59]

Hi Guys

Was dithering whether or not to take part. Mostly due to lack of technical knowledge of uploading photos/video etc. My hand was called as my mother and stepfather are staying with me for the weekend. A fire was requested so out came one of my bows.

No pictures I am afraid as I had to go straight for it.

Materials:

Bow - Unknown wood
Drill - Hazel
Hearth - Pine
Bearing Block - Holly

The Bow was set up in the Egyptian style. That is a long piece of cordage attached to the drill with a clove hitch then the loose cord wrapped around the drill.

My nest was made up of some dampish hay I had in the garage with the addition of a Common Reed head and a sprinkling of Cramp Ball fungus. Felt the need for this as even with a good buffing of the hay it was still damp.

After one failed attempt (coal went out) my time from stopping bowing to first flame was 1 min 50 secs.

I will endeavour again in a few days when the hay is drier.

House is a bit smokey from bringing the flaming nest in but everyone is happy there is a fire now.

Good luck and I will try for some pictures or video next time if I can figure out the technology thing.

George

Nice one George. Pictures/ videos are optional. Descriptions will do. Especially if it is a good story like that one. . No need to quote exact times - just that it was under the standard.

 

[rich59]

Got the two minutes standard very comfortably. But then, I was about as close to cheating as you can get: paper thin birch bark and thistle down, in a dried sphagnum moss and birch bark mix, in a birch bark tube, with a crampball ember lit from flint and steel. Very extravagant!

No pictures of the process but I do have one of the ensuing fire!

I must try that egyptian style. Will play with bow drill tommorrow.

That was a cornucopia of of tinder materials! I will of course need one timed off a bow drill start to officially include you in.

 

[BobFromHolland]

I haven't yet given it a try, but I hope to do so tonight.

Can I declare an interest myself or should I remain just the administrator?

You are welcome to join in, since you bring quite interesting alternatives into the fire-making gilde most of the time.

You might scare us with your craftmanship though. I bet you'll be the only one succeeding the 12 second standard (if that is to come ofcourse).

Bob

 

[Biddlesby]

So is the time from a cold bow drill, to ember, to flame? Or do I need to make a coal from a bowdrill, then time from that coal to flame. I have no more sphagnum moss!

 

[BobFromHolland]

OK, here are my stats for both satndard and all corners:

Standard: 1min30sec
Bow: Willow
Drill: willow
Heart: pine
bearing: bankirai
Tinder: hay mildly moist (special treat for your pet: flavoured with stinging nettle )
Special trics: once I secured the ember in the tinder bundle I did the windmill special (you know us Dutch, we love windmills ) until I burned my fingers :tapedshut and then blowed into it by (mildly alcoholic) breath . First flame 1:30, complete bundle blazing 1:40.

all corners: 1min03sec
Bush-match technique (credits to Rich59): bow drill ember transferred in charcloth (this took longest of all) then rolled charcloth in paper-thin birch bark and blew into flame. It can be done much quicker with some preperation, but since it started to rain I did the 'build them on the fly' type of trick.

 

[rich59]

So is the time from a cold bow drill, to ember, to flame? Or do I need to make a coal from a bowdrill, then time from that coal to flame. I have no more sphagnum moss!

It is the time from stopping bowing to first flame, so you can take as long as you like getting your coal.

 

[rich59]

OK, I will join in then. Thanks Bob. I am a learner like most of us here.

My first challenge was to get a coal at all! I seem to have some vibrating/ squeeky drills and my wood is damp. Anyway after a few tries I got an occasional coal. The next problem was getting a working tinder of any sort - the damp problem again. So I resorted to my damp leaf tinder - a finely rubbed mixture of all sorts, mostly leaf and bark, with what I have currently in my tinder box. The lid was a split piece of wood about 8 by 4 inches. No problem with getting a flame this time and came in a little under the 2 minutes.

Thoughts and some preliminary finds for another day:-

This morning I was reading Mors Kochanski's book. He describes "fine kindling" as material that will go to flame from a glowing ember. He talked about well rubbed inner bark of the Black Poplar being the best. I also recall some people recommending the inner bark of the cedar. I have a feeling that Jeff Wagner may come up with a fine time using this material (?). Anyway, I don't currently have either of these materials. But I do have lime tree (linden) bark.

I have also seen images of people putting their tinder under the notch. I was thinking that it could save a lot ot time doing this as one would not have to transfer the coal.

Then I was thinking about why a friction coal is more difficult than charcloth - because it disintegrates with strong blowing. So I thought that you would need some sort of a fine mesh or material to contain the coal.

So the plan evolved to create a finely rubbed nest of well dried lime tree bark and put it under the notch. When the coal formed the plan was to fold the coal into the nest and blow. I tried this and got a great result in terms of a rapidly spreading glowing coal through my lime bark nest. But it would not give a flame. I tried it 2-3 times with the same result. This did agree with my previous experience with lime bark in that is seems good to spread a glow but not very easy to go to flame. I also felt it was picking up damp from the air very quickly even though it had been stored dry in the house until I took it outside to try.

It wasn't until I laced the bundle with paper thin birch bark that I got a flame.

I think this general method might get me some good times in the next weeks. Why not try it and see what you can get.

I have also been thinking about the "match" tinder - a roll of leaf/ birchbark or other similar paper thin material with a heart of charcloth. Charcloth has some other robust natural equivalents that we might try - charred punky wood, cramp ball, charred lime bark fibre.

Anyway, a resume of the current positions

2 Minutes Standard
Natural tinder

Seoras 1.50
BobfromHolland 1.30
Rich59

All comers

BobfromHolland 1.03

5 Minutes Standard

Natural tinder

Fenlander

All comers


Declared an entry

Jeff Wagner
Biddlesby

 

[Stew]

This morning I was reading Mors Kochanski's book. He describes "fine kindling" as material that will go to flame from a glowing ember. He talked about well rubbed inner bark of the Black Poplar being the best. I also recall some people recommending the inner bark of the cedar. I have a feeling that Jeff Wagner may come up with a fine time using this material (?). Anyway, I don't currently have either of these materials. But I do have lime tree (linden) bark.

Rich,

Pm me your address and I'll get some Black Poplar inner bark over to you. I think I have some left over from the Moot and I would love you to have some.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Pounded and rubbed cedar bark makes an excellent tinder. My favorite actually. With a tiny tinder fungus coal from a fire piston it usually takes about 15 - 20 seconds to blow it into flame.